[00:00:03] THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE BUDGET AND FINANCE COMMISSION IS CALLED TO ORDER ON JUNE 12TH, 2025, [A. CALL MEETING TO ORDER] 06:30 P.M. AT THE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS. CAN WE START WITH A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? OKAY. COMMISSIONER MARIN. HERE. COMMISSIONER JESTE. HERE. COMMISSIONER ALLEN. SORRY. CHAIR ALLEN. HERE. COMMISSIONER SHERBIN. HERE. COMMISSIONER WOODHAM. HERE. COMMISSIONER SAMPLES . HERE. AND WE HAVE COMMISSIONER RAMCHARAN, WHO IS ABSENT. THANK YOU. NOW, PLEASE RISE TO SALUTE OUR FLAG. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. THANK YOU. WE'RE ON ITEM D APPROVE ORDER OF THE [D. APPROVE ORDER OF AGENDA] AGENDA. DO WE NEED TO REORDER ANYTHING FROM THE AGENDA? I WOULD RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THAT WE PUT THE PRESENTATION FROM THE CITY MANAGER ON THE BUDGET FIRST ON THE AGENDA. IS HE GOING TO BE HERE? HE'S COMING DOWN THE HALLWAY AS WE SPEAK. OKAY. I FORGET, DO WE NEED TO ROLL CALL? OR WE COULD JUST DO ALL IN FAVOR. YEAH. OH. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. DON'T YOU NEED A SECOND? I SECOND. NO ONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. NO OBJECTIONS. NO OBJECTIONS. ALL RIGHTY. SO WE WILL GO AHEAD WITH BLUE ITEM E BLUE FOLDER ITEMS ADDITIONAL BACKUP [E. BLUE FOLDER ITEMS - ADDITIONAL BACK UP MATERIALS] MATERIALS. YES. WE DO HAVE A BACKUP MATERIAL, I BELIEVE. YES, WE HAD ONE ITEM FOR I1, AND WE HAD ONE ITEM FOR J1. SO IF WE COULD GET A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE THOSE TWO ITEMS, THAT'D BE GREAT. CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE THOSE TWO ITEMS, PLEASE? ANY SECOND. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. ITEM F1 OR F CONSENT CALENDAR. I WOULD LIKE TO SEPARATE THE CONSENT CALENDAR. [F. CONSENT CALENDAR] AND VOTE ON THOSE ITEMS SEPARATELY. F1, DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING FOR THE REGULAR BUDGET AND FINANCE COMMISSION MEETING OF JUNE 12TH, 2025, PLEASE? SO MOVED. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ITEM TWO I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTFULLY ASK TO REVISE THE MINUTES TO INCLUDE A FEW MISSING ITEMS ON ITEM, THE CITY TREASURER'S REPORT, J1. THERE WAS A BIG DISCUSSION REGARDING A COUPLE OF ITEMS. THE RESERVES WERE DISCUSSED, AND I WAS TRYING TO CLARIFY WHERE THE RESERVES WERE AND WHICH PART OF THE RESERVES THE TREASURER WAS INVESTING. AND HE WAS GOING TO GET BACK TO ME FOR THE CALPERS RESERVES THAT'S PART OF HIS INVESTMENTS. IT'S PART OF THE IDLE FUNDS THAT HE INVESTS OR NOT. SO THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ON THAT THAT I'D LIKE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE MINUTES, BECAUSE THAT IS IMPORTANT. AND THERE WAS ALSO A DISCUSSION THAT THE TREASURER MENTIONED THE REVENUES WERE DECLINING. AND BECAUSE OF THAT, HE IS UNABLE TO INVEST LONGER THAN TWO YEARS. AND I'D LIKE THAT DISCUSSION TO BE INCLUDED ALSO PLEASE. FOR, THERE WAS ANOTHER ITEM. THE PRESENTATION FROM FINANCE DIRECTOR THAT IS ITEM IN FUTURE AGENDAS, J2. THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ON THE DETAIL OF THE PRESENTATION, THAT IT WAS NOT DETAILED, IT WAS TOO TOP LEVEL. [00:05:03] AND I'D LIKE THAT TO BE INCLUDED FOR THE RECORD BECAUSE IT SAID FINANCE DIRECTOR NARRATED A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH DETAILS OF THE FISCAL, THERE WAS NO DETAILS, THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE DISCUSSION, THAT IT WAS TOO TOP LEVEL. AND THEN THE OTHER ITEM THAT'S MISSING IS IT PROVIDED REVENUE COMING FROM DEPARTMENTS AND WE HAD A DISCUSSION THAT DEPARTMENTS DO NOT GENERATE REVENUE. IT'S, IT WAS THE COST RECOVERY. AND WE DID NOT NEED COST RECOVERY IN THOSE REPORTS. SO I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THESE MINUTES DURING THE NEXT MEETING. DO I HAVE A SECOND, PLEASE? YOU WANT TO MOVE THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES TO THE NEXT MEETING? YES. OKAY. YES. I'D LIKE TO APPROVE THE AFTER THE CHANGES ARE BEING MADE. WHY DON'T WE JUST WAIT UNTIL REVISE THE MEETINGS AND THE MINUTES AND BRING THEM BACK AT THE NEXT? YES, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I AM SUGGESTING. SO THAT'S THAT WAS MY SUGGESTION. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT TO SAY. THAT SHOULDN'T SHOULD THAT TAKE A MOTION? IT SHOULDN'T, SHOULDN'T TAKE A MOTION, SHOULD IT? DO WE NEED A MOTION FOR THAT? YEAH IF WE'RE REVISING THE MINUTES WE NEED A MOTION SAYING YOU WANT TO AMEND THEM. YES. SO COME BACK. I'M MAKING A MOTION TO AMEND THE MINUTES AND BRING IT BACK NEXT TIME. IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS IT, IF YOU WANT TO JUST AMEND IT WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS, YOU COULD JUST SAY, I WANT TO SEE IT BEFORE I APPROVE. OKAY. OKAY. SO MOTION TO BRING BACK THE MINUTES WITH AMENDED CHANGES? YES. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION PASSED. NEXT. SO WE COULD GO TO J 1 SINCE WE. THE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, DO WE NEED TO ASK THAT FIRST? RIGHT. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC, PLEASE, ONLINE OR IN PERSON? [H. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS] ONLINE WE DON'T HAVE ANY, BUT WE DO HAVE ONE IN PERSON. ALRIGHTY. SHOULD I READ THE SECTION IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE MEMBERS OF PUBLIC WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON ANY SUBJECT THAT DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE AGENDA FOR ACTION. THIS SECTION IS LIMITED TO 30 MINUTES. EACH SPEAKER WILL BE AFFORDED 3 MINUTES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. EACH SPEAKER WILL BE PERMITTED TO SPEAK ONLY ONCE. WRITTEN REQUESTS, IF ANY, WILL BE CONSIDERED FIRST UNDER THIS SECTION. OKAY. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS, AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. IT'S ALWAYS A PRIVILEGE IN THIS COUNTRY TO BE ABLE TO DO SO. AT TUESDAY'S COUNCIL MEETING, ONE COUNCILPERSON QUESTIONED THE EXISTENCE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A DEFICIT IN THE NEW FISCAL YEAR BUDGET. THE COUNCIL PERSON WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE DEFICIT, BUT EVERYBODY ELSE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE CONCERNED AT ALL. THE COUNCIL, OTHER COUNCIL PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR WISH LISTS. AND THE PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL BUDGET PROBLEM, IT'S RAISING ITS HEAD IN 2025 AND PROBABLY IS GOING TO ONLY GET WORSE IN SUBSEQUENT YEARS BECAUSE THEY COME TO THE PODIUM ASKING FOR GOODIES FROM THE CITY, THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE WANTS THE CITY TO WAIVE THE LICENSE FEES AND EAT THE COSTS FOR THEIR SUPER BOWL 10-K EVENT. THE PICKLEBALLERS WANT THE CITY TO BUILD A FACILITY. THE NRBBA WANTS THE ARTESIA BANNERS FROM AVIATION TO INGLEWOOD, THE CITY TO FUND THAT, SOMEONE WANTS THE RAILROAD BRIDGE PAINTED. AND YOU KNOW THEY DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A LOOMING PROBLEM WITH THE BUDGET. AND SO I SORT OF WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU CAN DO TO INFORM THE PUBLIC THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL PROBLEM, AND MAYBE ALL THESE WISHES CAN'T BE FULFILLED. BECAUSE REDONDO IS IN DEFICIT TERRITORY, REALLY, WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO BORROW LIKE THE FEDS CAN, AND THE REDONDO DOESN'T HAVE DIRECT CONTROL OVER THE MAJOR PART OF THEIR REVENUE STREAM LIKE THE FEDS DO. [00:10:03] REVENUE IS IFFY, COSTS ARE INCREASING. THE BIG PENSION LIABILITY IS STILL THERE. THE CITY IS DIPPING INTO RESERVES TO COVER THE DEFICIT, AND THE PUBLIC DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AWARE OF THIS. I ASKED THE COMMISSION TO HELP INFORM THE PUBLIC AND THE CITY GOVERNMENT TO ASSIST IN THAT EFFORT. TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE THE CITY NEEDS SOME HELP IN UNDERSTANDING FROM THE PUBLIC ABOUT THE FINANCIAL CONDITION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM J1. [J. ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION PRIOR TO ACTION] DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE FISCAL YEAR 2025-2026, CITY MANAGER'S PROPOSED BUDGET AND FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM AND OUR CITY MANAGER IS HERE. TAKE IT AWAY. HELLO, EVERYBODY. GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL AGAIN. HAPPY ALMOST END OF BUDGET SEASON. WE DO HAVE A POWERPOINT TONIGHT. I'VE COVERED THIS A FEW MEETINGS, AND SOME OF THIS WILL BE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HEARD FROM ME WHEN WE MET A COUPLE OF MONTHS BACK IN THE DELIBERATION AND PREPARATION OF THE BUDGET. TONIGHT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 25-26 FISCAL YEAR. WE ALSO HAVE OUR PROPOSED FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WITH THE FIVE YEAR CIP, ONLY THE FIRST YEAR EXPENSES ARE ACTUALLY APPROPRIATED. THE BALANCE OF THAT DOCUMENT IS A PLANNING TOOL THAT MAKES SOME ASSUMPTION ON REVENUES AND CAPITAL FUNDS THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE, BUT IN ITSELF DOES NOT SET ASIDE APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE OUTER FISCAL YEAR. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO THE OVERVIEW WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE THEMES IN THE BUDGET. WE'LL COVER SOME OF THE SUMMARY DOCUMENTS YOU'VE HAD THIS. WE'LL GO A LITTLE BIT OVER THE CAPITAL ON A HIGH LEVEL BASIS, THE CAPITAL PROGRAM. TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE 59 BUDGET RESPONSE REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN PREPARED FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION. WE DON'T NEED TO GIVE YOU TOO MUCH ENERGY ON THE BUDGET CALENDAR, BECAUSE WE'RE TOWARDS THE END OF THAT NOW, AND WE'LL MOVE ON WITH RECOMMENDATIONS. SO NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SORT OF BOILED THE CITY MANAGER'S MESSAGE AND HOPEFULLY YOU HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE TRANSMITTAL LETTER. I THINK IF THERE'S ONE DOCUMENT IN THE BUDGET THAT SHOULD HELP SUMMARIZE AND SYNTHESIZE EACH ENSUING YEARS KIND OF THEME, IT'S THAT LETTER, WE TRY TO WE SPEND SOME TIME TO TRY TO DISTILL THE INFORMATION AND REALLY DIGESTIBLE BITS, GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TABLES, FACTS AND FIGURES THAT HAVE INTEREST AND THEN HELP YOU UNDERSTAND HOW WE SORT OF TACKLE THE UPCOMING FISCAL YEARS APPROACH. THIS BUDGET REALLY ADDRESSES THROUGH CORE AND THROUGH A DECISION PACKAGE, CORE EMPLOYEE COMPENSATION COSTS, WHICH AS THIS COMMISSION KNOWS, HAVE INCREASED YEAR OVER YEAR WITH THE VARIOUS APPROVED MOUS, WITH OUR LABOR ASSOCIATIONS, AND WITH YEAR OVER YEAR INCREASES IN MEDICAL HEALTH EXPENSES AND MORE RECENTLY, SOME OF OUR ADDITIONAL PENSION COSTS. IT TALKS ABOUT ABSORBING NEW TECHNOLOGY PROGRAMS ON A COMMITMENT AND ONGOING BASIS AND BRINGING ABOUT NEW ONLINE SERVICES, INVESTING IN TECHNOLOGY IN A WAY THAT WILL ALLOW US TO HOPEFULLY CREATE EFFICIENCY AND ENHANCE CUSTOMER SERVICE, BOTH FROM A FACT QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS STANDPOINT, BUT ALSO AN IMMEDIATE ONLINE SERVICE DELIVERY STANDPOINT. WE SPEND MONEY TO INVEST IN EMPLOYEE TRAINING, HEALTH AND WELLNESS. YOU'LL SEE THAT PARTICULARLY IN THE PUBLIC SAFETY DEPARTMENTS AND THE VARIOUS DECISION PACKAGES. AND WE TALK ABOUT ENSURING AND STABILIZING AND RETAINING IN MANY INSTANCES ARE CRITICAL. PUBLIC SAFETY AND PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAMS, I.E. THE CROSSING GUARD PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE HAD IN PLACE FOR MANY YEARS. WE CONTINUE TO PROPOSE FUNDING TO PROVIDE AND AFFORD THE 27 CROSSING GUARD LOCATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN STAFFED IN THE PAST. THERE'S NOT AN IMPACT ON THE BUDGET, PER SE, BUT THE BUDGET RECOGNIZES AND REFLECTS THAT. WE DO HAVE SOME UPFRONT EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH MEASURE FP IMPLEMENTATION. WE'VE BROUGHT ON A PROJECT MANAGER TO HELP ASSIST WITH THAT PROCESS, TO BRING ON THE APPROPRIATE CONSULTANTS TO SUPPORT THE VARIOUS ACTIVITIES, WHETHER IT BE FINANCIAL PLANNING OR, MORE NOTABLY, PRE-PROJECT DESIGN AND ACQUISITION STRATEGY FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECONSTRUCTION OF OUR CRITICAL PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITY. SO THERE'S A REFERENCE THERE. IT'S A NET ZERO IMPACT ON THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET. BECAUSE WHATEVER MONEY WE DO SPEND NOW, WE WILL BE ABLE TO BE REIMBURSED THROUGH THE BOND ONCE THEY'RE ISSUED. BUT RATHER THAN ISSUE THE BONDS AND SIT ON THAT MONEY EARLY AND ULTIMATELY AFFECT RESIDENTS TAX ROLLS, WE FOUND IT PRUDENT TO ACTUALLY ADVANCE SOME OF THOSE LIGHTER INITIAL EXPENSES AND THEN BE READY WITH THE BIGGER OUTLAY AND AND TIME THAT UP WITH THE ISSUANCE OF THE BOND. WE HAVE, AS THIS GROUP KNOWS VERY WELL, WE HAVE A $4.3 MILLION UNFUNDED ACCRUED LIABILITY PAYMENT THAT'S HITTING THE 25-26 BUDGET, THAT'S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST PRESSURE POINT THAT WE HAVE ON THE BUDGET. AND WE'LL SEE YOU'LL SEE THAT HERE IN THE CHARTS IN A BIT. [00:15:03] AND THEN AS I'VE SAID TO YOU ALL, THIS IS A BIT OF A SMOOTHING YEAR FOR US. WE'RE TRYING TO SLOWLY ABSORB THE UNFUNDED ACCRUED LIABILITY PAYMENT INTO OUR STRUCTURAL BUDGET. WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT IN PART THIS YEAR, BUT WE STILL HAVE A WAYS TO GO PARTICULARLY DEPENDING ON THE AUGUST CIRCULAR WE'LL GET FROM PERS TO DETERMINE WHAT THE 26-27 NUMBER WILL BE. THIS YEAR'S NUMBER IN 25-26 IS 4.3 MILLION. THE ESTIMATE AT LEAST PREVIOUSLY FOR THE 26-27 NUMBER WAS ROUGHLY THE SAME, BUT AS YOU ALL KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE ADDITIONS AND SUBTRACTIONS INTO THAT CALCULATION. IT COULD GO UP OR IT COULD GO DOWN DEPENDING ON PERS PERFORMANCE IN BOTH 22-23 AND 23-24. AND THEN ULTIMATELY WHAT THEIR ACTUARIAL ASSUMPTIONS ARE, HOW THEY'RE ADJUSTED BASED ON LIFE EXPECTANCY AND PERFORMANCE IN THE FUND. SO WE'LL GET THAT CIRCULAR HERE IN THE NEXT MONTH AND WE'LL HAVE A SENSE OF THAT FIGURE. BUT WE ARE VERY CONSERVATIVE IN THE ESTIMATES THIS YEAR ON OUR REVENUES. AND WE'RE VERY CONSERVATIVE ON EXPENSES TO ENSURE THAT WE'VE GOT MAXIMUM ALLOWANCE THERE FOR, FOR COST. BUT SO I WOULD SAY CALPERS PENSION BEING ONE PRESSURE POINT. THE OTHER PART OF THE ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY THAT WE FLAGGED IN THE BUDGET IS TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY TAX. WE DIDN'T MAKE A SIGNIFICANT ADJUSTMENT TO TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY TAX REVENUE THIS YEAR, YEAR OVER YEAR, IN PART BECAUSE WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE VISITOR MARKET'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR. WE ARE PROJECTING IT TO BE FLAT. CALIFORNIA TOURISM IS SHOWING A 1% RETRACTION. BUT IT'S UNKNOWN THAT THE NATIONAL DISCUSSION ON THE ECONOMY, IT OSCILLATES ONE MINUTE IT'S BEARISH AND THE OTHER THE NEXT MINUTE IT'S BULLISH. SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO FORECAST. SO WE'VE BASICALLY CALLED IT DOWN THE MIDDLE. WE'RE GOING TO PROJECT TOT AS FLAT AND WE'RE GOING TO KEEP OUR OUR ESTIMATES CONSERVATIVE. SAME WITH SALES TAX, VERY MINOR INCREASE THERE, UTILITY USER TAX YOU'LL SEE IN THE CHARTS ALSO VERY MODEST. SO WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOUNT FOR WHAT IS AN UNCERTAIN FISCAL YEAR GIVEN THE NATIONAL NARRATIVE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO THIS BOILS IT DOWN IN VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD TERMS. OUR CORE REVENUES AND CORE EXPENDITURES ARE GENERALLY BALANCED. THERE IS ONE SORT OF CAVEAT TO THAT. WE'LL GET TO THAT IN THE NEXT FEW SLIDES. WE HAVE A BEGINNING FUND BALANCE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO USE TO PAY FOR ONE TIME EXPENSES THAT ARE IDENTIFIED IN THE DECISION PACKAGES. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE RECOMMENDED DECISION PACKAGES ACTUALLY STRENGTHEN OUR BUDGET POSITION. THE REVENUES AND OR SAVINGS ASSOCIATED WITH REORGANIZATIONS ARE IN EXCESS OF EXPENSES, AND THEY EFFECTIVELY IMPROVE OUR STRUCTURAL POSITION BY ROUGHLY $340,000. THE ONE TIME DECISION PACKAGES, HOWEVER, WHICH LARGELY RELY ON THE ONE TIME RESOURCES TO START THE FISCAL YEAR OF COURSE ARE AT THAT $1.7 MILLION FIGURE NET. SO ALL IN THE BUDGET IS BALANCED WITH AN UNALLOCATED FUND BALANCE OF ROUGHLY $43,000. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. ON THE GENERAL. YES MA'AM. CAN YOU BACK UP JUST ONE? YES. OKAY. THAT RECOMMENDED DECISION PACKAGE IS ONE TIME OF THAT 1.7 MILLION. IS THERE ANY ONE ITEM? THAT'S THE LARGEST SINGLE PIECE OF THAT? WELL, PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST IS THE CROSSING GUARD CONTRIBUTION. IT'S ANOTHER BIG CHUNK OF MONEY. WE HAVE, AND WE CAN PROBABLY GO THROUGH THEM IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL, IF YOU LIKE. BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO A LOT OF DETAIL, BUT JUST I WOULD SAY CROSSING GUARD SOUNDS LIKE A BIG NUMBER. AND I KEEP HEARING MILLION DOLLAR NUMBERS FLOATED AROUND HAVING TO DO WITH CONSTRUCTION OF PUBLIC SAFETY INFRASTRUCTURE. NO, I DON'T I DON'T THINK THAT'S A FACTOR IN THIS. WE HAVE SOME OF THE OTHER ENTERPRISE FUNDS, THE COMMUNICATIONS FUND AND OTHERS. THERE'S SOME RADIO PURCHASES. OF COURSE, WE HAVE VEHICLES THAT ARE PURCHASED THAT WOULD BE SEPARATE FROM THIS FIGURE. I'M TALKING INFRASTRUCTURE, NOT YEAH. THIS IS PREDOMINANTLY IT'S A BIG CHUNK OF ONE TIME MONEY FOR CROSSING GUARDS. IT'S A BIG CHUNK OF ONE TIME MONEY FOR OUR TREE TRIMMING SERVICES ASSOCIATED WITH THE GRID. THAT'S THIS UPCOMING IN THIS FISCAL YEAR. IT'S ONE OF THE LARGER GRIDS THAT'S BEING PRUNED. YOU'LL SEE SOME OTHER ONE TIME EQUIPMENT IN THERE. WE'VE GOT PROPOSALS. I MEAN, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT SAFETY, THERE ARE SOME SOME TURNOUT GEAR THAT ARE DUE FOR REPLACEMENT THIS YEAR. THERE'S A THERE'S A BIT OF A NUMBER IN THERE FOR THAT. THERE ARE SOME OTHER ONE TIME MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES THAT WE'RE BUYING THIS FISCAL YEAR. SO THERE'S SOME COUPLE OF BIG CHUNKS AND THEN THERE'S A LOT OF LITTLE CHUNKS I THINK THAT GET YOU TO THAT ONE SEVEN. SO OKAY. YEAH. AND WE CAN GO INTO THAT IN MORE DETAIL IF YOU LIKE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. ON THE REVENUE SIDE, SO GENERAL POSITIVE REVENUE GROWTH YEAR OVER YEAR. PROPERTY TAX AS WE SAID CONTINUES TO BE POSITIVE FOR US. WE'RE BEING VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH THE 2% INCREASE OVER MID-YEAR AT ABOUT $700,000, A TAX INCREMENT SALES AND USE TAX. [00:20:09] VERY CONSERVATIVE NUMBER THERE. ON THE INCREASE SIDE. AND AGAIN WE USE HDL, OUR OUTSIDE CONSULTANT, TO HELP US ESTIMATE THESE FIGURES. TOT AS I MENTIONED, IS AT 9.1 MILLION THIS YEAR. THAT'S CONSERVATIVE BECAUSE WE BELIEVE OUR FULL POTENTIAL WITH THE LEGADO PROJECT COMING ONLINE AND THE MARINA AVENUE HOTEL SITE, PREPARING AND AND PRODUCING AT FULL VALUE IS CLOSER TO 11 TO 11.5 MILLION. SO WE'RE KEEPING THAT FIGURE UNDER PROJECTED CAP BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE CAUTIOUS GIVEN NEXT YEAR'S UNCERTAINTY. PROPERTY TAX IN LIEU FEE OF COURSE, IS INDEXED TO WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE OVERALL PROPERTY TAX FIGURE. UUT AS IT PERTAINS TO MIDYEAR, SLIGHTLY UP, BUT RELATIVELY FLAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT ON A ON A HOLISTIC BASIS, NO CHANGE IN PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX. WE DON'T SEE HOME SALES REALLY GROWING NEXT FISCAL YEAR. WE SEE THEM BEING VIRTUALLY THE SAME AS THIS FISCAL YEAR. ALTHOUGH THERE WAS AN ESTIMATE THAT WE RECEIVED FROM HDL THAT SUGGESTED THAT NUMBER COULD BE SLIGHTLY HIGHER WE'VE CHOSEN TO BE CONSERVATIVE THERE. AND THEN THE OTHER TAXES ARE RELATIVELY A WASH. AND THEN AS YOU CAN SEE, OVERALL WE HAVE SOME ADJUSTMENTS IN TRANSFERS IN. SO TOTAL PRIMARY TAX REVENUES ARE GOING UP BY JUST UNDER 4%, BUT OUR TRANSFER IN CALCULATION AFFECTS THAT A BIT BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE'RE PAYING SOME OF OUR LEASE LEASEBACK DEALS FROM AN ACCOUNTING STANDPOINT. SO THOSE IT DOES ADJUST THE OVERALL FIGURE BY 1.3 MILLION AS OPPOSED TO THE THREE UP TOP. YES, SIR. COULD YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT WHAT THE TRANSFER IN IS? YEAH. SO TRANSFER IN IS THE MONEY THAT IS COMING INTO THE GENERAL FUND FROM SOME OTHER SOURCE THAT IS, THAT IS ASSOCIATED TYPICALLY IN THIS CASE WITH AN OPERATING BUDGET FUNCTION. RIGHT. WHETHER IT BE A DEBT PAYMENT OR IT BE A THIRD PARTY REVENUE THAT'S SUPPORTING ANOTHER ACTIVITY THAT WE'RE SPENDING. SO THIS NUMBER HAS BEEN BIGGER IN THE PAST BECAUSE WE WERE CALCULATING OUR LEASE LEASEBACK STRUCTURE ON A HOLISTIC BASIS WHEN WE WERE PAYING OUR PENSION BONDS AND THE LIKE. WE'VE GOT THAT NOW DOWN TO SOME OF THE BASICS. I DON'T KNOW IF, STEPHANIE, IF YOU KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHAT THAT 2.7 IS ACCOUNTED FOR. YES. SO IN GENERAL, AS THE CITY MANAGER MENTIONED, THESE ARE FUNDS THAT COME INTO THE GENERAL FUND FROM, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS OR SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS. THIS IS GENERALLY TO REIMBURSE THE GENERAL FUND FOR SPECIFIC SERVICES OR IN SOME CASES IT'S A PASS THROUGH. SO WE'LL HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS TRANSFER FUNDS INTO THE GENERAL FUND TO PAY FOR OUR 2020, OUR LEASE REVENUE BOND PAYMENT RELATED TO PENSIONS. AND WE HAVE ANOTHER BOND PAYMENT THAT COMES INTO THE GENERAL FUND, AND WE TRANSFER IT, THEN BACK OUT TO OUR CAPITAL PROJECTS FUND TO SUPPORT CAPITAL PROJECTS. SO FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S KIND OF AN IN AND OUT. WHAT THE CITY MANAGER MENTIONED IS AT SOME POINT, WE WERE TRANSFERRING ALL OF THE PAYMENTS RELATED TO OUR LEASE REVENUE, BOND PAYMENT INTO THE GENERAL FUND, TRANSFERRING OUT THE ENTIRE AMOUNT BECAUSE IT THEN GETS PAID OUT OF OUR PUBLIC FINANCING AUTHORITY. WE DECIDED TO CHANGE THAT. SO WE'RE JUST HAVING THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS PAY OUR PFA DIRECTLY. IT'S JUST, IT'S CLEANER AND THE ACCOUNTING IS SIMPLER. SO THE IMPACT THERE'S THERE'S NO NEGATIVE IMPACT TO THE GENERAL FUND BECAUSE IT'S JUST A DIFFERENCE OF A PASS THROUGH. IT'S JUST SO THANK YOU. SIMILAR QUESTION TO NON-TAX REVENUE. YEAH. WHAT ARE THE BIG ITEMS IN THAT? INTERNAL SERVICE FUND REVENUE IN PARTICULAR. SO THE COLLECTION OF FEES ASSOCIATED WITH GENERAL FUND ACTIVITY THAT IS CHARGED OFF TO THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS IN SUPPORT. THAT'S A BIG ONE. AND WE HAVE RECREATION PROGRAM FEES THAT ARE IN THERE WHICH CAN BE LARGE LEASE REVENUE PAYMENTS FOR, SAY, OUR MARINA AVENUE HOTEL SITE. WE ACTUALLY IN ADDITION TO TOT, WE COLLECT A LEASE PERCENTAGE RENT LEASE PAYMENT. OTHER I'D SAY YOUR PROGRAMMATIC USER FEES ARE YOUR BIGGER NUMBERS HERE. THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, PARKING PARKING FEES, BUILDING FEES, FIRE INSPECTION FEES, USER FEES, DRIVE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THIS, THAT AND THE INTERNAL SERVICE FUNDS, I WOULD SAY. YEAH. AND WE ALSO HAVE INVESTMENT REVENUE IN THERE AND WE HAVE ANY REVENUE COMING IN FROM OTHER GOVERNMENTS. YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, BACK IN THE DAY, THAT NUMBER WAS WAS SMALLER AGAINST THE GENERAL TAXES. YOU KNOW, IT'S GROWN TO THE POINT WHERE WE MAY EVEN BEGIN TO START TO SEGREGATE SOME OF THOSE CATEGORIES. BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE A LOT OF YOU DO HAVE ISF AND USER FEES AS PRETTY BIG CHUNKS IN THERE. [00:25:06] IS THAT A SEPARATE SLIDE THAT SHOWS SOME DETAILS? BECAUSE THIS IS A HUGE NUMBER IS ALMOST A QUARTER OF THE TOTAL BUDGET. YEAH, THERE'S A FULL I MEAN, THERE'S THERE ARE FULL BREAKDOWNS OF ALL THESE, THESE ARE JUST AGGREGATED TABLES. THERE'S I MEAN, IF YOU GO THROUGH THE BUDGET BOOK, YOU'LL SEE ALL OF THESE FEES LAID OUT IN WITH A LOT OF SPECIFICITY. SO IN THE BUDGET BOOK, WE ALWAYS PRESENT IT IN A WAY SIMILAR SIMILAR TO HOW WE PRESENT IT FOR YOUR QUARTERLY REPORTS, WHERE WE BREAK IT DOWN BY TYPE. SO WE SHOW TAXES, CHARGES FOR SERVICE, FINES AND FORFEITURES, USE OF MONEY AND PROPERTY, WHICH IS OUR LEASES AND INVESTMENTS AND THE INTERNAL SERVICE REVENUE. SO ALL OF THAT IS IN A LOT OF DETAIL FOR THE BUDGET BOOK. I THINK IN THESE PRESENTATIONS, WE TEND TO KEEP VERY HIGH LEVEL AND ALSO REALLY FOCUS ON OUR TAX REVENUE, WHICH IS THE MAJORITY OF OUR GENERAL FUND. YEAH, JUST IT GETS TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S, WERE WE WOULD BE PAGINATING THROUGH THESE TABLES IF WE REALLY BROKE IT DOWN. SO IT'S, THAT DETAIL THOUGH, IS THERE FOR YOU IN THE BUDGET TO REVIEW. SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON REVENUES WHILE WE'RE ON THE SLIDE? I HAVE A QUESTION. SO THE TREASURER AT THE LAST MEETING MENTIONED THE REVENUES ARE GOING DOWN. WHICH ONE WAS HE TALKING? I THINK HE WAS REFERRING TO INVESTMENT REVENUE WAS GOING DOWN, NOT OVERALL REVENUE. HE WAS REFERRING TO THE OVERALL REVENUE. THAT'S WHY HE IS UNABLE TO INVEST LONG TERM. AND I THINK WHAT MAYBE IT'S NOT REVENUE THAT'S GOING DOWN. HE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT HIS ACCESS TO THE FULL ASSET POOL. THE THE TOTAL CASH ON HAND HAS GONE DOWN BECAUSE IT WAS INFUSED WITH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF ONE TIME MONEY WITH THE ARPA PAYMENT AND SOME OF THE OTHER, IN THE SAVINGS WE HAD THROUGH THE BOND IMPLEMENTATION, THAT CASH WAS FOR ONE TIME PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE SINCE SPENT. SO HIS TOTAL FUND BALANCE FOR HIS INVESTMENT POOL HAS BEEN REDUCED AS THOSE PROJECTS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED. SO HE HAD PURCHASED AN INVESTMENT AND IT WAS, HE PURCHASED IT FOR TWO YEAR DURATION. SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION, WHY DID YOU PURCHASE IT FOR ONLY TWO YEAR DURATION AND NOT FIVE YEARS? BECAUSE THEN YOU GET HIGHER YIELD? AND HE, I MEAN IT'S ALL ON VIDEO. YEAH. SO THERE'S A, SO OUR CASH FLOW NEEDS BECAUSE WE HAVE A AND WE HAVE SUCH A ROBUST CAPITAL PLAN RIGHT NOW, OUR ACCESS TO CASH CAN BE VERY IMMEDIATE DEPENDING ON WHAT'S OCCURRING WITH PROJECT IMPLEMENTATION. SO THE FUNDS AREN'T SITTING THERE AND JUST COLLECTING DUST, SO TO SPEAK, ALLOWING FOR INVESTMENT IN SOME INSTANCES. IN MANY INSTANCES, THE MONEY BEING ADDED IT'S BEING QUICKLY DRAWN DOWN. SO HE'S HAVING TO KEEP THE ASSET POOL A LITTLE MORE LIQUID TO ACCOMMODATE THAT INCOMING AND OUTGOING CASH FLOW NEED. SO THAT PROBABLY GENERALLY NOT HAVING BEEN AT THE MEETING MEANING IS MY GUESS AS TO WHAT HE MEANS BY THAT, BUT IT'S NOT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN REVENUE. REVENUE IS GOING UP YEAR OVER YEAR. REVENUE IS GOING UP ON A CITYWIDE BASIS. CASH THOUGH, CASH BALANCE THAT THAT EBBS AND FLOWS DIFFERENTLY THAN REVENUE. OKAY. YOU GUYS NEED TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO HIM. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON REVENUES? ALL RIGHT. OKAY. GENERAL FUND EXPENSES. SO HERE'S OUR OVERALL BREAKDOWN PERSONNEL. THAT FIGURE IS UP FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS. IT INCLUDES OUR YEAR OVER YEAR SALARY INCREASES, BENEFIT STRUCTURES. BUT NOT JUST THAT. IT ALSO IS REFLECTIVE OF OUR ACTUAL HIRING. WE HAVE , IN MANY INSTANCES, REDUCED THE NUMBER OF VACANCIES, VACANT POSITIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THE ORGANIZATION. SO THIS IS A REFLECTION NOT JUST OF MOU CHANGES, BUT ACTUAL FTE COUNT AND FILLED POSITIONS IN THE ORGANIZATION, WHICH ARE HIGHER THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN YEARS PAST. MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS IS DEDUCED THERE, IS DEDUCTED IN LARGE PART BECAUSE THE MID-YEAR BUDGET INCLUDES CARRYOVER FUNDS THAT ARE ONE TIME IN NATURE THAT MIGHT HAVE SPECIFIC PROJECT CALLS. ONCE THOSE ARE SPENT, THEY COME OUT OF CORE. SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THAT BIG DEDUCTION. INTERNAL SERVICES YOU ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THAT FORMULA. THAT'S THOSE ARE IDENTIFIED AT MID-YEAR AND THEN SIMPLY PROPOSED IN THE SUBSEQUENT BUDGET. CAPITAL OUTLAY IS AN ODD CATEGORY IN OUR OPERATING BUDGET. IT HAS VERY, VERY LITTLE IMPACT. AND THEN OUR TRANSFERS OUT, AS WERE MENTIONED EARLIER REALLY HAVE TO DO WITH OUR ISF PROGRAM, THE GENERAL FUNDS PARTICIPATION IN THAT, AS WELL AS SOME OF OUR OTHER LEASE LEASEBACK PAYMENTS. SO THAT LEAVES YOU WITH 123, ROUGHLY $500,000 GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURE BUDGET, WHICH AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE [00:30:09] ON THE WHOLE, IS NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT THAN WHERE WE WERE AT MID-YEAR YEAR OVER YEAR. IS THAT 28% REDUCTION IN MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS, IS IT A REALISTIC? YES. SO WHAT THAT REALLY REFLECTS IS THE MID-YEAR BUDGET INCLUDES ALL YEAR END CARRYOVER PROJECT FUNDS. IT DOES NOT GET PICKED UP IN PROPOSED CORE. SO WE ALWAYS SEE THIS TRANSITION BETWEEN MID-YEAR AND PROPOSED IN SOME INSTANCES. WE'VE ALWAYS COMPARED TO MID-YEAR IN THIS CHART. I DON'T LOVE IT FOR THAT REASON BECAUSE IT INCLUDES THOSE ONE TIME FUNDS THAT HAVE ROLLED OVER FROM THE PRIOR FISCAL YEAR. SO IT SHOWS AN INFLATED NUMBER IN 24-25 VERSUS CORE. BUT NEVERTHELESS, FOR CONSISTENCY PURPOSES, WE HAVE IT HERE. SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE TIME MONEY THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR A SPECIAL PROJECT VERSUS WHAT'S THERE IN THE ACCOUNTS YEAR OVER YEAR OVER YEAR FOR CORE EXPENSES. AND THAT'S WHAT THAT DELTA'S ATTRIBUTED TO. AND THAT REVISED BUDGET WOULD ALSO INCLUDE THE ONE TIME DECISION PACKAGES FROM FY 24-25. SO WE ALSO, WHEN WE PUT THESE IN AS ONE TIME WHEN WE'RE PREPARING THE PROPOSED BUDGET FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR, WE GO THROUGH AND WE REMOVE ALL OF THOSE BUDGETS THAT COUNCIL HAD APPROVED ON A ONE TIME BASIS ONLY. YES. QUESTION WE'VE GOT FOR, THE BUDGET INCLUDES 4.2 MILLION IN ANNUAL PAYMENTS. WHERE IS THAT REFLECTED IN? YOU'LL SEE THAT HERE IN A SECOND. WE'VE GOT THAT IN THE UPCOMING CHARTS. BUT IT'S NOT IN THE 120, NOT IN THE 123. NO, WE WANTED TO CALL IT OUT AND KEEP IT HIGHLIGHTED FOR YOU ALL IN PARTICULAR, SO WE CAN TRACK THIS VERY CAREFULLY. SO YOU'LL SEE THIS IN THE NEXT CHARTS HERE. OKAY. SO AND WE'RE CALLING THIS SOME ADDITIONAL PAYMENTS AND SOURCES OF FUNDS. SO WE HAVE AND THIS IS THE BIG ONE, THE FOUR POINT ALMOST $3 MILLION PAYMENT THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THAT. THIS YEAR, WE'RE PROPOSING TO USE 3.5 MILLION OUT OF OUR $8 MILLION PENSION SET ASIDE ACCOUNT. AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. I THINK I MENTIONED WHEN I CAME HERE IN, IN APRIL THAT WE WERE GOING TO NEED TO USE THAT FUND TO BRIDGE THE ASSIMILATION OF OUR NEW UAL PAYMENTS, WHICH ARE AT 4.3 MILLION A YEAR. OUR HOPE IS THAT 4.3 MILLION WILL GO DOWN NEXT FOR THE 26-27 FISCAL YEAR. WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT COUNTING ON THAT BECAUSE THAT IS A REAL IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE WITH PERBS HISTORY THAT THAT NUMBER COULD STAY THE SAME OR EVEN GROW. SO WE WERE PLANNING TO ASSIMILATE, IF WE COULD, ABOUT 50% OF THIS FIGURE THIS YEAR AND ONLY TAKE ROUGHLY 2.2, 2.1 MILLION FROM THE FUND. WE WERE CAUTIOUS, THOUGH, AS I MENTIONED, WITH OUR REVENUE ESTIMATES FOR TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY TAX AND SOME OF THE OTHER FUNDS OR SOME OF THE OTHER DRIVERS AND DUE TO THAT, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO BE THAT AGGRESSIVE TO COVER THAT THROUGH STRUCTURAL REVENUE GROWTH. SO TO BE SAFE, WE'RE PULLING 3.5 OUT OF THE FUND TO COVER THAT. A BIG PORTION OF THAT EXPENSE EXPENSE THIS YEAR, WITH THE HOPE AS OUR STRUCTURAL REVENUES GROW IN 26-27, THAT MORE OF THAT NUMBER IS ASSIMILATED INTO THE ONGOING ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET AND COVERED BY ONGOING ANNUAL REVENUE. SO THIS IS WHY WE CREATED THIS FUND. I'M PLEASED, OF COURSE, THAT WE WERE CAUTIOUS AND JUDICIOUS IN DOING IT AND WHY WE HAVE BEEN SO STEADY IN RECOMMENDING THE GROWTH IN THAT FUND. THIS IS REALLY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT'S HAPPENING IN REDONDO BEACH AND WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN SOME OF OUR OTHER ADJACENT CITIES, WHO HAVE HAD TO TAKE VERY SEVERE AND DRASTIC CUTS IN THEIR BUDGET THIS YEAR IN ORDER TO BALANCE, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF SETTING MONEY ASIDE FOR THIS PURPOSE. CITY OF LA. CITY OF FRESNO. YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO READ IN THE NEWS. CITIES ARE SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCING SERVICES IN ORDER TO BALANCE THEIR BUDGET THIS YEAR. WE WERE CAUTIOUS. WE SET THIS MONEY ASIDE. WE'RE NOW DRAWING ON THOSE FUNDS FOR THAT PURPOSE. WE ARE WATCHING THIS VERY CAREFULLY. THIS IS NOT, WE CAN'T SUSTAINABLY TAKE 3.5 MILLION FROM THIS FUND YEAR OVER YEAR OVER YEAR. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO ABSORB IT. YEAH, YEAH, WE COULD DO IT FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT LEFT OVER FROM THERE. WE REALLY NEED TO SEE THIS GAP CLOSE FURTHER. MY HOPE NEXT YEAR IS THAT WE BRING THAT TOT ONLINE AND MAYBE SOME OTHER REVENUES, AND WE'RE ABLE TO REALLY SHRINK THAT DELTA AND GET TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE SMOOTHING THIS IN OVER THE NEXT TWO FISCAL CYCLES. MIKE, I WAS GOING TO ASK THIS QUESTION LATER, BUT SINCE YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME IS, IS JUST THAT WE'VE GOT 4.2 MILLION PAYMENT THIS YEAR. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE NEXT YEAR, BUT IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT SORT OF A FIGURE GOING FORWARD. WE'VE GOT 60 MILLION OF UAL. YEAH. WE HAVE TO AMORTIZE. [00:35:02] AND THE ONLY WAY THAT COMES DOWN IS IF RETURNS ARE ABOVE THE 6.8%. AND SMARTER MEN THAN ME HAVE MISSED MARKET CALLS AND DECIDING WHAT RETURNS ARE GOING TO BE. SO THERE'S NO WAY TO FORECAST THAT. BUT THERE'S THAT NUMBER GOING FORWARD. AND THEN WHEN WE ISSUE THE THE FP BONDS THERE'S ABOUT 6 MILLION OF ANNUAL P & I COMING FROM THAT. SO WE'VE GOT A $10 MILLION ISSUE GOING FORWARD. QUESTION IS. WE'LL BE OKAY ON THAT BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE A NEW SOURCE OF REVENUE FOR THAT. THE MEASURE FP BOND IS GOING TO BE FULLY COVERED THROUGH TAX ROLLS. THAT WON'T HIT THE GENERAL FUND AT ALL. OKAY. THAT ONE WON'T BE A LEASE REVENUE BOND OR LEASE LEASEBACK LIKE WE'VE HAD WITH OUR OTHER TWO ISSUES. GOT IT. THANKFULLY WE HAVE A SOURCE FOR THAT. SO. BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. YOUR LINE OF THINKING I THINK, IS SPOT ON. IT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN CONCERNING OURSELVES WITH THIS 4.2 MILLION, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, IS REALLY HERE TO STAY. THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN TRY TO FURTHER MASSAGE THAT. I MEAN, YOU COULD EVEN CONTEMPLATE REFINANCING THAT NUMBER AGAIN LIKE WE DID WITH THE BIGGER $230 MILLION. YOU'RE STILL PAYING 6.8% TO CALPERS FOR THAT. WE ARE, WE'RE STILL PAYING THE DISCOUNT RATE. SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE YOU KNOW, THE MUNICIPAL BOND MARKET HAS COME UP A BIT SINCE THAT TIME, WE WOULDN'T IF WE WERE TO GO OUT TODAY, WE WOULDN'T ACHIEVE THE 2.73% DISCOUNT RATE THAT WE RECEIVED AT THE TIC THAT WE OBTAINED IN 2001. WOULD IT BE LESS THAN 6.8? YEAH, I THINK SO. IT MIGHT BE 4 OR 5 OR SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE. SO THAT'S A TOOL WE MAY WANT TO CONTEMPLATE IN THE FUTURE TO KIND OF REDUCE THAT NUMBER, THAT DEBT SERVICE NUMBER. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN AUGUST. THAT WILL ACCOUNT FOR THE BETTER THAN AVERAGE YEAR THAT THEY EXPERIENCED, I BELIEVE AT THE CONCLUSION OF WAS IT 22-23. THAT WILL NOW ROLL IN FINALLY. SO THERE'S A CHANCE THE NUMBER COMES DOWN A TOUCH. BUT WE HAVE TO ASSUME THIS IS HERE TO STAY. SO WHEN I LOOK AT THAT FIGURE AND WE USE THAT 3.5 MILLION TO OFFSET IT, I THINK ABOUT IT AS WE'VE GOT TO ASSIMILATE THAT 4.2 MILLION INTO STRUCTURE OUR STRUCTURAL REVENUES OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS. THAT'S REALLY WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN. AND IF WE CAN'T DO IT THROUGH NEW REVENUE GROWTH, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO DO IT THROUGH EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS. AND WE'LL PULL ONE OR BOTH OF THOSE LEVERS IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR CYCLE IF WE NEED TO. SO, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO FLAG IT HERE. IT'S WHY WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. THAT'S WHY WE PUT IT OUT THERE AND MAKE IT CLEAR, YOU KNOW, TO THE POINT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER SO EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS IS HAPPENING. WE COULD HAVE PUT ALL OF THIS INTO THAT THOSE OTHER CHARTS AND HAD THE EXTRA MONEY AND JUST DRAWN ON IT AND SHOWN IT BALANCED. BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE DOING A LOT BETTER THAN MOST, BUT WE DO HAVE THIS PRESSURE POINT SITTING ON THE HORIZON FOR US, AND WE'VE GOT TO ACCOUNT FOR IT. IT'S NOT A PANIC TYPE NUMBER. IT'S NOT A DOOM AND GLOOM TYPE NUMBER, BUT IT'S A NUMBER THAT WE HAVE TO PREPARE FOR AND MANAGE. AND I'M GRATEFUL THAT WE TOOK THE CAUTION THAT WE DID OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS TO SET AT LEAST THAT $8 MILLION ASIDE THAT WE DID. THAT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL, OBVIOUSLY, THIS FISCAL YEAR. SO LET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU JUST SAID, SEE IF I CAN SUMMARIZE IT. WE CAN EXPECT THAT OUR ONGOING COSTS IS GOING TO BE $4 MILLION A YEAR. AFTER THIS YEAR, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ROUGHLY $4 MILLION LEFT IN THE FUND. FOUR AND A HALF THAT WHEN THIS COMMITTEE RECOMMENDED THAT WE REFINANCE THAT AND KEEP ALL OF THAT MONEY IN RESERVE, INSTEAD, THAT MONEY WAS SPENT. AND NOW YOU HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT IT MAYBE NOT NEXT YEAR, BUT THE YEAR AFTER, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A $4 MILLION SHORTFALL AND NO MONEY LEFT IN THE RESERVE FUND. IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? NO. WELL, NO. NOT NECESSARILY. THERE COULD BE A SCENARIO WHERE THAT OCCURS. THERE COULD BE A SCENARIO WHERE, SO THE OTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT, MAYBE THE HALF FULL SIDE OF THE EQUATION, IS WE WERE ABLE TO ASSIMILATE ROUGHLY $760,000 OF THAT PAYMENT INTO OUR STRUCTURAL BUDGET ALREADY, IN FACT. AND IN FACT, OUR ONGOING REVENUES AND EXPENDITURES IN THE PROPOSED DECISION PACKAGES IMPROVE OUR STRUCTURAL BALANCE ON AN ONGOING BASIS EVEN FURTHER. SO YOU COULD SAY, HEY, GOOD NEWS IS WE'RE STARTING TO ASSIMILATE THE NUMBER. THIS MY HOPE THIS TIME LAST YEAR WAS THAT THAT NUMBER WOULD BE ABOUT HALFWAY ASSIMILATED. WE'RE UNDER A QUARTER OF IT NOW. SO WE'RE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND SCHEDULE. AND THAT'S MOSTLY BECAUSE OF THE TOT DELAY. BUT IF THAT TOT NEXT YEAR GOES FROM 9 MILLION TO 11 MILLION, WE'VE IMMEDIATELY CLOSED THAT GAP BY 2 MILLION STRUCTURALLY. SO IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO KEEP TABS ON. WE CANNOT USE TRANSFERS IN FROM THE PENSION FUND INDEFINITELY. WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A YEAR, MAYBE TWO YEARS LEFT, DEPENDING ON WHAT WE DO. AND WE'LL HAVE TO TAKE OTHER STRUCTURAL, WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE OTHER STRUCTURAL DECISIONS, EITHER NEW REVENUES OR OR EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS TO FULLY ABSORB THAT REMAINING [00:40:04] $3.5 MILLION DELTA. WHAT EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS WOULD YOU ANTICIPATE? WELL, I TALK ABOUT A FEW OF THEM IN THE BUDGET BOOK. ONE OF THE THE TECHNIQUES THAT WE WOULD TYPICALLY DEPLOY AND IS USUALLY OUR FIRST STEP IS A FLEXIBLE HIRING FREEZE WHERE YOU TAKE, YOU KNOW, WE AT ANY GIVEN TIME, WE HAVE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 5 AND 11% OF THE ORGANIZATION VACANT. RIGHT. AND WHAT YOU CAN USUALLY DO TO BALANCE OR CLOSE THAT STRUCTURAL GAP IS TO FREEZE THOSE POSITIONS, THOSE VACANCIES. NOW YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHICH ONES YOU'RE FREEZING. YOU CAN'T JUST IF YOU DO IT UNILATERALLY, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME AREAS OF SERVICE THAT REALLY FEEL THE PAIN. BUT YOU FREEZE THOSE POSITIONS AND YOU CLOSE. YOU CLOSE THAT EXPENDITURE. I MEAN, IF WE FREEZE 4% OF OUR POSITIONS, 5% OF OUR POSITIONS, YOU'RE BALANCED. SO THAT'S THE THOSE ARE THE EXPENDITURE LEVERS YOU WOULD PULL. THE HOPE THOUGH IS YOU WOULD IDENTIFY REVENUES TO OFFSET THAT AND NOT HAVE TO GO TO THE SERVICE REDUCTION MODEL. BUT THOSE ARE OPTIONS ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO US. AND WE'VE DEPLOYED THEM. IN MY TIME HERE, MY ALMOST 20 YEARS HERE, WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH, I'D SAY, THREE DIFFERENT BUDGET CUTS, CYCLES THAT WERE MULTIYEAR. YOU TALKED ABOUT 2 MILLION IN TOT. ANY OTHER REVENUE ENHANCEMENTS THAT COULD BE MADE OR MIGHT BE MADE? WE'RE HOPING TO SEE SOME ADDITIONAL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. THE LEGADO HOTEL PROPERTY COMING ONLINE WE THINK WILL BE SIGNIFICANT TAX INCREMENT FOR US. THE PROPERTY TAX CALCULATION HDL'S OUT. YEAR FIGURES STILL SHOW 3 TO 5% GROWTH IN VALUATION. SO THAT'S ANOTHER NUMBER FOR US. YEAR OVER YEAR TENDS TO GENERATE WELL OVER $1 MILLION OF NEW TAX INCREMENT. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE TWO YEAR HORIZON IN COMMUNICATING WITH OUR CONSULTANTS, THEY FEEL PRETTY GOOD. ABOUT 3 TO $4 MILLION OF TAX INCREMENT IN 26-27. I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO EXCITED ABOUT THAT. I DON'T WANT TO COUNT ON THAT. YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS IN 25-26 GOING, OKAY, WE'RE BALANCED. WE MADE IT. WE WERE SMART. WE SET SOME MONEY ASIDE TO COVER THIS SMOOTHING PERIOD. BUT WE'VE GOT TO STAY VIGILANT AND WE'VE GOT TO AND WE'VE GOT TO BE PREPARED TO PIVOT IF MIDYEAR DOESN'T LOOK TOO GOOD, IF REVENUES LAG OR THE ECONOMY STARTS TO DRAG NATIONALLY, YOU KNOW, WE MAY RECOMMEND MEASURES EVEN AT THAT POINT TO TRY TO SOFTEN THE BLOW. BUT TO PUT IT INTO SOME PERSPECTIVE, IT'S THIS ISN'T YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T MASSIVE SHORTFALL TYPE RANGE HERE. WE'RE IN THE THE MANAGEABLE MARGIN STILL VERY VERY CLEARLY. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS. SO THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE MEASURE FP COSTS AND THEN FUTURE BOND PROCEEDS COVERING AND REIMBURSING THOSE EXPENSES. THE IRONY. WELL HERE'S THE OTHER NOTE OF IRONY IS, OF THE 3.5 MILLION WE'RE PULLING FROM THE TRANSFER, TRANSFERRING OUT OF THE PENSION RESERVE FUND, 420,000 OF THAT IS IMMEDIATELY GOING INTO OUR ECONOMIC CONTINGENCY RESERVE ACCOUNT. SO BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GROW THAT ACCOUNT AS TOTAL APPROPRIATIONS GROW, AS THIS COMMISSION KNOWS, WE SET ASIDE 8.33% OF THOSE TOTAL APPROPRIATIONS IN OUR RESERVE FUND. SO WE'RE ACTUALLY TAKING MONEY FROM THE PENSION RESERVE FUND AND PUTTING $423,000 INTO THE ECONOMIC CONTINGENCY FUND. SO NOT ALL OF THE 3.5 IS GOING AWAY. JUST JUST ALMOST THREE OF IT. SO MAYBE NEXT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. OKAY. CAPITAL PROJECTS. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. I THINK YOU ALL RECEIVED A PRESENTATION AT YOUR LAST JOINT MEETING WITH PUBLIC WORKS AND SUSTAINABILITY, SO I WON'T BORE YOU WITH THE DETAILS HERE. OUR TOTAL NUMBER IS NOW AT 104, WHICH IS GOOD. WE MADE A CONSCIOUS EFFORT TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF CAPITAL PROJECTS, MAKE SURE THEY WERE THE MOST CRITICAL, AND IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, TRANSFER AND ABSORB THEM INTO SINGULAR PROJECTS THAT NEED THE MONEY TO BE COMPLETED. WE'RE FORTUNATE TO HAVE A 90, ALMOST $94 MILLION CIP. THAT'S A BIG NUMBER FOR A CITY OUR SIZE. WE'RE ADDING WE'RE ADDING 20, ALMOST $30 MILLION OF NEW MONEY TO THIS CIP. I WANT TO SAY ROUGHLY 23 MILLION OF THAT IS THROUGH GRANTS, COMPETITIVE GRANTS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THROUGH OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT'S EFFORTS. SO A LOT OF TIMES FOLKS WILL SAY, OH, WE GOT TO GET MORE GRANT WRITERS IN HERE. WELL, OUR OWN STAFF ACTUALLY DO A PRETTY DARN GOOD JOB WRITING GRANT APPLICATIONS. 20 ALMOST $23 MILLION THIS YEAR OF NEW GRANT MONEY INTO OUR CAPITAL PROGRAM. TEN OF THAT IS FROM GENERAL FUND? NO. THEN IT COMES THROUGH THE TRANSPORTATION RESTRICTED SOURCES SB1, REGIONAL MEASURE R ALLOCATION, MEASURE M ALLOCATION, GAS TAX. NONE OF IT FROM GENERAL FUND. NO. THERE IS NO GENERAL FUND ALLOCATION IN THIS. [00:45:01] THERE IS ONE. THERE'S ABOUT $750,000 OF DISCRETIONARY PFA GENERAL DISCRETION BONDS, RESIDUAL BOND MONEY THAT WE'RE STILL RECEIVING FROM THE OLD REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY UP ON THE NORTH SIDE OF TOWN. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE KIND OF TREATING AS OUR DISCRETIONARY INFUSION. WE DID NOT PUT A MILLION OF OF GENERAL FUND CIP INTO THIS YEAR'S BUDGET. LAST YEAR WE DID WELL. I DON'T WANT TO BORE YOU WITH THOSE DETAILS. I THINK YOU HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC WORKS CREW. WE SPENT WE'RE ANTICIPATING SPENDING A LITTLE OVER $18 MILLION, COMPLETING 22 PROJECTS, DESIGNING ANOTHER 17 AND AWARDING CONSTRUCTION ANOTHER UNDER 17. SO THE PLAN STARTS TO HUM PRETTY GOOD WHEN WE'RE AT 100 PROJECTS AND WE'RE BUILDING 22 TO 25 A YEAR ON A FIVE YEAR BASIS. THAT'S THAT'S LOOKING PRETTY GOOD. THAT'S THE CONSISTENT NUMBER. THAT'S THE THAT'S THE MARK YOU WANT. YOU WANT TO DESIGN ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF PROJECTS YOU'RE EXECUTING IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR. SO THOSE ARE IN MY VIEW HAVING LOOKED AT THIS STUFF FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, THESE ARE THESE ARE GOOD HIGH LEVEL METRICS FOR US ON A PERFORMANCE BASIS. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. OKAY. BUDGET WAS INTRODUCED ON THE 20TH BY TO THE COUNCIL WAS ACTUALLY DELIVERED THE WEEK BEFORE THAT. PLANNING COMMISSION LOOKED AT THE CIP IN PARTICULAR FOR CONSISTENCY AND CONFORMITY. WE HAD AN OPERATING BUDGET FOCUSED DISCUSSION ON THE THIRD LAST TUESDAY, THAT IS TWO DAYS AGO, WE DID A CIP FOCUS WITH THE COUNCIL. OBVIOUSLY I'M HERE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT, AND THEN NEXT TUESDAY, THE COUNCIL IS SCHEDULED TO HAVE THEIR FINAL HEARING TO CONSIDER BUDGET ADOPTION. AND THE COUNCIL HAS BEEN WATCHING THE MEETINGS THEY'VE ALREADY FLOATED KIND OF A BUDGET MOTION. WE'RE A LITTLE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE IN THE CONVERSATION, ACTUALLY, TO HAVE ALL 59 BUDGET RESPONSE REPORTS ALREADY TO THEM AND IN THEIR QUEUE MAKES THAT PROCESS A LITTLE BIT EASIER. YOU KNOW, KNOCK ON WOOD, WE'LL HAVE A SUCCESSFUL DELIBERATION NEXT TUESDAY, AND WE'LL ADOPT THE BUDGET AND START LOOKING FORWARD TO THE 25-26 FISCAL YEAR. STEPHANIE. OKAY. BUDGET RESPONSE REPORTS I MENTIONED IT 59 TOTAL QUESTIONS. YOU CAN REACH THEM THROUGH THE TAB OR THE LINK IN THE BUDGET PAGE OF THE WEBSITE. IT ASKS ANY MYRIAD OF TOPICS, SOME AS SILLY AS WHAT'S IT COST TO REPLACE A FENCE ALONG GRANT AVENUE TO WHAT'S IT, YOU KNOW WHAT COULD BE DONE TO TO CHANGE THE WAY WE HAVE OUR PREFERENTIAL PARKING PROGRAM? ARE THERE NEW FEES THAT CAN BE GENERATED TO, CAN OUR CROSSING GUARDS BE ANALYZED IN THE LOCATIONS, BE ANALYZED TO IDENTIFY QUANTIFIABLE AND OBJECTIVE METRICS THAT MIGHT LEAD TO DECISION MAKING IN THE FUTURE. SO IT'S A PRETTY ROBUST SET OF REPORTS. I WOULDN'T SUGGEST YOU READ ALL OF THEM, BUT YOU MAY WANT TO GO THROUGH THE TABLE OF CONTENTS AND PICK OUT A FEW THAT ARE OF INTEREST TO YOU. LET'S SEE HERE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. WELL TONIGHT REALLY IS TO RECEIVE AND FILE THE PRESENTATION AND THEN ANY, ANY FORMAL FEEDBACK YOU WANT TO GIVE THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL AS THEY CONSIDER AND DELIBERATE NEXT TUESDAY, YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO DO THAT IN YOUR MOTION TONIGHT. YOU'VE DONE IT A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS OVER THE YEARS. SOMETIMES YOU'LL HAVE THEMES IDENTIFIED. YOU'LL APPOINT SOMEBODY TO MAYBE PREPARE A LETTER AND SEND IT IN WHATEVER MATERIAL YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH THEM. WE'LL ATTACH THAT CORRESPONDENCE TO WHAT WE CALL BUDGET RESPONSE REPORT NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS A CAPTURING OF ALL THE COMMISSION FEEDBACK THAT'S BEEN GATHERED OVER THE MONTHS. AND THE COUNCIL WILL HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF THEM WHEN THEY CONSIDER ADOPTION NEXT WEEK. SO I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE ABOUT THE DECISION PACKAGE OR BRRS OR ANYTHING ELSE, AND THEN LEAVE IT TO YOU ALL TO DELIBERATE ON WHAT KIND OF INPUT YOU WANT TO PROVIDE. MIKE. YES, SIR. 104 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS. FOR OVER A YEAR, WE HAVE ASKED FOR SOME DATA ON WHAT THE INITIAL AMOUNT APPROVED FOR EACH PROJECT WAS, AND WHERE DO WE STAND AT THE END OF LAST YEAR OR BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR, AND WE HAVE STILL NOT BEEN ABLE TO. SO HELP ME UNDERSTAND. SO STAFF HAS MENTIONED THAT TO ME, AND I KNOW THEY'RE WORKING ON SOME MATERIAL. SO ONE THING I WANT TO MAKE SURE IS CLEAR IN THAT QUESTION FUNDAMENTALLY IS WHEN WE SET MONEY ASIDE IN A CIP, WE SET IT ASIDE FOR INITIAL PHASE WORK FOR THAT BUDGET, RIGHT. SO I'LL GIVE YOU A GREAT EXAMPLE. PICKLEBALL COURTS, THE PICKLEBALL COURTS, THE COUNCIL IS PART OF THE MOTION. LAST YEAR PUT A LITTLE OVER $300,000 INTO PICKLEBALL PROJECT ACCOUNT TO START THE PROCESS OF DESIGNING AND CONSIDERING FULL CONSTRUCTION OF THE AMENITY. NOBODY EXPECTED OR EXPECTS THE PICKLEBALL COURTS TO COST $300,000. IT WAS SEED MONEY TO START THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN AND THEN TO ADVANCE THE PROJECT THROUGH PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS. BUDGET MOTION THIS YEAR MIGHT ADD ANOTHER COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TO THE PROJECT. AND LOOKING AT JUST THE BUDGET, IT WENT FROM 300 TO 500 AND WE MAY EVENTUALLY BUILD IT FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD. AND IT MIGHT BE 1.5 MILLION, BUT NOBODY'S EVER ANTICIPATED OR STATED THAT THAT PROJECT WAS GOING TO COST THE $300,000 THAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROPRIATED. [00:50:08] SO I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS AND THE CONCERNS THAT STAFF HAVE RAISED TO ME IN TRYING TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A GOOD QUESTION, IS WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THAT, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT COST OVERRUNS FROM POINT OF FINAL ESTIMATION AND CONTRACT AWARD? ARE WE TALKING CHANGES IN FINAL ESTIMATES FROM ORDER OF MAGNITUDE ASSUMPTIONS IN THE BUDGET TO FINAL EXECUTION, BECAUSE THE CIP ITSELF IS GOING TO HAVE MULTIPLE ITERATIONS OF THAT PROJECT AMOUNT AND TYPE. PHASE ONE MIGHT BE PRE-DESIGN, OR IT MIGHT EVEN BE PHASE ONE IS $50,000 FOR FINANCIAL OR FOR FEASIBILITY OF A PROJECT. AND THEN THE NEXT PHASE MIGHT BE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN. THAT MIGHT BE $150,000, AND THEN WE MIGHT PUT $1 MILLION IN TO DO FORMAL CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS, AND THEN WE MAY NEED $10 MILLION TO BUILD IT. SO IF ALL WE LOOKED AT IS HOW THE BUDGET IS ADJUSTED OVER TIME, IT ISN'T GOING TO TELL US. I THINK WHAT YOU WANT TO KNOW, WHICH IS HOW IS THE IS THE PROJECT COMING? IS IT BEING BUILT AT ESTIMATE? I THINK. WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS DATA. YOU'RE TRYING TO EXPLAIN AND DEFEND SOMETHING WITHOUT EVEN GIVING US THE DATA. SO HOW DO WE EVEN KNOW WHETHER YOU'RE STARTING AT 300,000 OR 500,000 OR 2 MILLION. WE HAVE NO INFORMATION. YEAH. SO TO DO THAT. SO I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT ALL THE CAPITAL PLANS OVER THE YEARS, RIGHT? WHAT WE WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO DO IS START WITH SOME CATEGORIES AND GO THROUGH EACH PROJECT'S EVOLUTION OVER TIME. FOR EACH PROJECT, GIVE US THE STEP BY STEP INFORMATION ON WHAT WAS THE AMOUNT REQUESTED, WHY IT WAS REQUESTED, AND HOW MUCH WAS APPROVED. HE IS ONLY ASKING TRANSPARENCY. THAT'S ALL HE'S ASKING. HE'S NOT QUESTIONING. I FULLY GET IT AND I WANT, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS ANSWERED BECAUSE IN SOME INSTANCES, WHAT'S PUT IN THE BUDGET ISN'T REQUESTED. IT'S JUST A NUMBER THAT IS ASSIGNED BECAUSE IT'S WHAT'S AVAILABLE. WHAT WAS APPROVED IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. WELL, THAT'S IN THE BUDGET FOR YOU NOW. I MEAN, ALL WE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS PUT UP FIVE YEARS OF CIPS. I MEAN, YOU HAVE THAT, THAT'S ONLINE TODAY. YOU COULD LOOK AT THAT. BUT IF THAT NUMBER GOES UP, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT HAS GONE UP THE NEXT TIME BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NEW NUMBER. WELL, AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY CONTEXT BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THAT'S MY THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT IS IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW EACH NUMBER FIRST AND THEN EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. YOU EXPLAIN IT, EXPLAINING SOMETHING WITHOUT GIVING US THE NUMBER. SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN? NOTHING. YEAH. OKAY. WELL, IT'S A LOT, RIGHT? YOU'VE GOT 140 PROJECTS IN THERE AND THEY ALL HAVE GONE THROUGH THEIR OWN PATH, RIGHT? THEY'VE THEY'VE GOT THEIR OWN HISTORY, THEIR OWN PROJECT. YOU SHOULD HAVE ALL THE DETAILS AND PUT THAT IN THE BUDGET SOMEWHERE. YEAH. WELL, THAT SHOULD BE EASILY ATTAINABLE BECAUSE IT IS EASILY ATTAINABLE. BUT WHAT'S GOING TO BE MISSING IS THE CONTEXT, THE SUMMARY ON A SPREADSHEET. RIGHT. WHAT'S GOING TO BE HARD IS THE CONTEXT BETWEEN EACH OF THOSE YEARS EVOLUTION. RIGHT. LET'S USE THE PICKLEBALL EXAMPLE THERE. IF YOU GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL APPROPRIATION, IT WAS A NUMBER PLUCKED OUT OF THE AIR TO JUST PROVIDE SEED MONEY FOR THE PROJECT. THERE WAS THERE WAS NO ANALYSIS . IT WAS RELATED TO A BUDGET RESPONSE REPORT THAT TALKED ABOUT THE PROJECT BEING ESTIMATED TO COST SOMEWHERE BETWEEN $900,000 AND $1.3 MILLION, AND THEN COUNCIL TAKING WHAT MONEY IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME AND DROPPING IT INTO A HOLDING ACCOUNT. SO LOOKING AT THAT NUMBER ON A SPREADSHEET AGAINST SOME FUTURE BUILD NUMBER ISN'T GOING TO TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT PERFORMANCE. I GUESS HOW DO YOU MEASURE YOUR SUCCESS OR THEIR SUCCESS WHEN THEY BUILD, WHEN THEY BUILD OUT? LIKE HOW DO YOU KNOW? RIGHT. HOW DO YOU DO IT? WELL, AND IF YOU'RE NOT PRESENTING IT TO US, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB? AND THAT'S AND I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT THAT'S THE RIGHT METRIC TO GET TO IS WHAT I LOOK AT PERSONALLY IS WHAT WAS THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE AT THE TIME OF PROJECT BIDDING. RIGHT. WAS IT 4 MILLION? WAS IT FOUR AND A HALF? AND THEN WHAT DID THE CONTRACT BID NUMBER COME IN AT? DID IT COME IN AT FIVE? DID IT COME IN AT 3.9? SOMETIMES IT COMES IN LESS. SOMETIMES IT COMES IN MORE. WHERE I GET A LITTLE FRUSTRATED IS WHEN WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE, AN ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE AT BIDDING WITH THE FULL PLAN SET, WHEN WE'VE DONE FULL CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS, AND WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S INCLUDED IN THE PROJECT. AND THEN THAT NUMBER COMES IN MUCH HIGHER THEN, AND I'VE GOT TO SCRAMBLE TO FIND CREATIVE WAYS TO CLOSE THE BUDGET GAP AND PAY FOR THAT PROJECT SO WE CAN EXECUTE SOMETHING THAT THE COMMUNITY DESPERATELY WANTS. SO CAN YOU DO THAT? CAN YOU SHOW US WHAT THE PLAN? WHAT THE PLAN? ABSOLUTELY. AND THEN WHAT THE BIDS CAME IN AND THEN WHAT THE FINAL COST WAS. AND THEN WE CAN AT LEAST SEE ACROSS. WE CAN ABSOLUTELY DO THAT. THAT'S VERY EASY TO DO. WHERE IT GETS MORE COMPLICATED, WHERE IT GETS. YOU GOTTA START SOMEWHERE. YEAH. I'VE GOT TO BACK UP JUST A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THE PLANS, BEFORE THE ESTIMATE AND BEFORE THE CONTRACT AWARD. [00:55:03] IF YOU'VE GOT A MULTI-YEAR PROJECT, THERE WAS A JUSTIFICATION FOR PUTTING IT ON THE LIST IN THE FIRST PLACE. HOW OFTEN DO YOU REVIEW WHETHER THAT'S STILL AN EFFECTIVE, VIABLE PROJECT THAT IT'S STILL WORTHWHILE TO PURSUE? A GREAT EXAMPLE. WE PUT MONEY INTO THE PIER PARKING STRUCTURE. WE WERE HOPING WITH $2.5 MILLION A FEW YEARS AGO TO DO SEISMIC UPGRADES, A COUPLE OF SEISMIC SHEAR WALLS IN THE PIER PARKING STRUCTURE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW. OH, THAT SHOULD BE. YOU KNOW, THAT SHOULD COVER IT. CONCRETE GOES UP, SPALLING GOES, ALL THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS GO UP. THAT BID COMES IN AT 3.3 MILLION, AND WE SAY, WAIT A MINUTE. I DON'T THINK THE VALUE OF THAT PROJECT AT 3.3 MILLION IS WORTH US TAKING THE ORIGINAL 2.5 NOW DOWN TO 2.1 POST DESIGN AND ADDING ANOTHER MILLION AND A HALF TO GET IT BUILT. I DON'T THAT PROJECT TO ME IS NO LONGER, THE JUICE IS NO LONGER WORTH THE SQUEEZE, SO TO SPEAK. SO WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH THIS PROPOSED BUDGET? WE HAVE DEFUNDED THAT PROJECT AND DONE THE ELEMENTS THAT WE THINK ARE MOST VALUABLE AND COST EFFECTIVE, THE CATHODIC PROTECTIONS, THE CEILING TO PROTECT THE EXISTING CONCRETE RATHER THAN INVEST THREE ADDITIONAL MILLION DOLLARS TO PROVIDE SEISMIC STRENGTH THAT ISN'T GOING TO MATERIALLY CHANGE THE WEIGHT LOAD AT THE TOP OR MAKE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS. SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF US SAYING, WELL, WE HAD HOPED TWO AND A HALF MIGHT DO SOMETHING WHEN IT BECAME CLEAR THAT THAT NUMBER WAS CLOSE TO 3,5 WE RECALIBRATED AND WE MADE A DIFFERENT RECOMMENDATION. SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY EVALUATING WHERE WE'RE AT WITH EACH PROJECT AND WHAT IT'S ULTIMATELY ACHIEVING. WHAT NUMBERS YOU PROJECT BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVES? THAT'S IMMATERIAL. THAT DOES NOT REALLY HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT BY US. ALL WE WANT TO SEE IS WHAT WAS THE INITIAL AMOUNT THAT WAS APPROVED AND YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ALL THESE ENGINEERING DESIGNS AND CHANGES AND THEN GETTING SOME ESTIMATES AND THEN REALIZING I'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT FOR 30 YEARS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND BELIEVE ME, WHEN YOU PRESENT A NUMBER TO THE, THE DECISION MAKERS AND WHEN THEY APPROVE IT, THEY'RE GOING TO HOLD YOUR FEET TO THE FIRE. WE GOT NOTHING TO HOLD ANYONE ACCOUNTABLE. THERE'S NO ACCOUNTABILITY. RIGHT. WELL, AND I GUESS THE CHALLENGE IS WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT IS THE NUMBER REALLY BEING PRESENTED, OR IS THE NUMBER JUST BEING ADDED TO THE BUDGET. FOR A NUMBER THAT IS APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL ? WELL, SOMETIMES THE CITY COUNCIL IS PUTTING THE NUMBER IN THE BUDGET. SO. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THEY APPROVE A NUMBER, THAT'S THE NUMBER THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND AND YOU GOT THE APPROVAL FOR IT, RIGHT. START WITH THAT. WELL, AND I CAN TELL YOU GREAT. THERE'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF MAYBE HOW WE WOULD PRESENT THIS THING. HEY, 100,000, $150,000 WAS PUT INTO THE BUDGET TO BEGIN THE DESIGN PROCESS. OKAY. DESIGN CONTRACT CAME BACK AND IT WAS $135,000. WE WERE UNDER BUDGET. RIGHT. BUT THEN THE COUNCIL THE NEXT YEAR SAID, OKAY, NOW THAT WE HAVE THE DESIGN, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO PUT $4 MILLION IN THE CIP TO GO OUT AND CONSTRUCT. WELL, WE PUT 4 MILLION IN AND CONSTRUCTION CAME IN AT 4.5. WELL, WE MISSED THE MARK BY HALF A MILLION OR IT CAME IN AT 3.5. WE SAVED $500,000. BUT EACH PHASE WOULD ALMOST IN A SENSE, NEED TO BE ANALYZED AGAINST ITS ASSUMPTION, BECAUSE THE IF YOU JUST TAKE A SNAPSHOT OF THE CIP WITH A 500,000 OR A $50,000 NUMBER IN A PROJECT ACCOUNT, NOBODY IS CLAIMING THAT THAT'S GOING TO CONSTRUCT ANYTHING. AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DECIDE. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THAT NUMBER FOR THAT 50,000 OR $200,000 IS FOR DESIGN, NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION, OR THAT NUMBER IS FOR A FEASIBILITY ANALYSIS, NOT EVEN FOR DESIGN, OR THAT NUMBER IS TO DO ENTITLEMENT IN FRONT OF COASTAL COMMISSION, NOT TO ACTUALLY BUILD THE FACILITY. SO EACH OF THOSE PROJECTS HAS TO BE THE CONTEXT OF THAT. APPROPRIATION HAS TO BE UNDERSTOOD. THAT APPROVAL HAS GOT TO BE VERY SPECIFIC IN THAT CASE. YES. AGREED. AND SO THAT IF THAT'S THE IDEA, WE COULD START TO DO THAT. SO WE CAN PULL THE PLUG ON SOMETHING THAT IS GOING WAY OUT OF WHACK. AND BELIEVE ME, I'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS AND ALL YOU'RE TRYING TO DO, YOU AND ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION ARE THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. YEAH. THEY KEEP EXPLAINING AND DEFENDING SOMETHING WITHOUT GIVING US ANY DATA. WELL, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A YEAR. YEAH, I DON'T, I HAVE TO SEE WHAT DATA HAS BEEN PRESENTED OR HASN'T, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. I THINK FOR IT TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE WITH FULL CONTEXT IN EACH STAGE. AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN DO SOME OF THAT FOR YOU. MAYBE WE START SMALL, MAYBE WE START WITH STREET PROJECTS, OR MAYBE WE START WITH CATEGORIES, [01:00:01] BECAUSE TO DO THAT OVER THE COURSE OF, LET'S SAY, TEN YEARS OF CIP, WHICH HAS HAD AT ANY POINT 100 TO 145 PROJECTS IN IT, THAT'S A LOT OF TIME AND ENERGY FOR STAFF TO PREPARE THAT MATERIAL, RIGHT? THAT OTHERWISE WOULD BE SPENT ON THEM DESIGNING AND BUILDING PROJECTS. SO I'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT'S HELPFUL TO YOU ALL AND IS CAN WORK WITHIN THEIR TIME AND WORK PROGRAM. SO IF I COULD SUGGEST THIS JUST FOR A THOUGHT, MAY OR MAY NOT WORK AND YOU'RE WELCOME TO TO BLOW IT OUT OF THE WATER. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE STEPS THAT HAPPEN IN THE PROCESS. AND THERE ARE ASSUMPTIONS MADE AT EVERY STEP. WE GET REPORTS HERE. YOU GET REPORTS WHERE THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF DESCRIPTIONS WITH NUMBERS AT THE END OF A PARAGRAPH. AND YOU'VE GOT TO GET DOWN TO THE END OF AN ENTIRE PAGE, AND THEN YOU YOURSELF HAVE TO SIT THERE WITH A PAPER TAPE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ALL THE NUMBERS ARE, RIGHT? HOW ABOUT IF THERE WAS A TABLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DESCRIPTION OF EACH PROJECT THAT THAT JUST HAD A BOX FOR EVERY ASSUMPTION AND A HALF SENTENCE THAT SAYS WHAT THE ASSUMPTION IS. DESIGN, PRE-DESIGN, CONCEPT. YEAH. AND AND THIS WAS THE NUMBER THAT WAS PLUGGED IN. AND THEN WHEN YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE, WHAT'S THE VARIANCE. WAS IT. YEAH. WHAT'S THE ACTUAL. YEAH. WHAT'S ACTUAL. AND THEN WHAT'S THE VARIANCE. YEAH. JUST JUST A SIMPLE TABLE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HOURS OF OF STAFF. YEAH. JUST THINK ABOUT IT. NO, NO I LIKE THAT. I THINK THAT'S A S WE TALK THIS THROUGH. THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY HEAD GOES IS YOU'D HAVE THE COLUMNS ACROSS THE SHEET FOR EACH PROJECT. AND YOU COULD SPEAK TO THE APPROPRIATION, THE AMOUNT, THE WORK ITEM CONCEPT, PRE ENGINEERING, CONCEPTUAL DESIGN, BIDDING, ENTITLEMENT, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. CATEGORIZE IT BUDGET AMOUNT ESTIMATE. BECAUSE SOMETIMES BUDGET DOESN'T MEET ESTIMATE RIGHT. IT MIGHT BE IT'S UNDERFUNDED, IT'S OVERFUNDED WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. AND THEN ACTUAL AND THEN DELTA. WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET THERE WITH THE RIGHT DASHBOARD, WITH THE RIGHT SOFTWARE, WITH THE RIGHT INPUT OF INFORMATION, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHICH WOULD THEN PERHAPS BE A LITTLE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE FOR YOU. AND IT'S NOT THAT ANYBODY'S TRYING TO THWART THE CONVERSATION OR THE EXERCISE. IT'S JUST IT'S A LOT BECAUSE THERE'S SO I MEAN, EACH PROJECT REALLY HAS A STORY TO TELL. AND IN SOME CASES WE'VE BEEN SPOT ON AND WE'VE IN SOME CASES WE'VE WE'VE MISSED THE ESTIMATE AND IT'S COST US MORE MONEY IN SOME CASES. IT'S COME IN UNDER AND, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S THE REALITY. SO I BRING THAT UP BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN SEVERAL REQUESTS, SEVERAL ORDERS THAT HAVE COME THROUGH WHERE THERE'S A DESCRIPTION OF A CAPITAL COST WITH NO DESCRIPTION OF ONGOING COST OF OWNERSHIP. THE ONGOING COST OF OWNERSHIP PROJECT HAS BEEN PHENOMENAL. AND THERE WAS NO ESTIMATE ON THE FRONT END. AND THERE'S NO ACCOUNTABILITY IN YEARS GOING FORWARD. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD, I THINK, TO DO IT ON EVERYTHING THAT COMES TO THE CITY COUNCIL , THAT'S A REQUEST FOR A PROJECT. IT'S THIS IS OUR CAPITAL COST AND THIS IS OUR ONGOING OUR FIVE YEAR COST OF OWNERSHIP. YEAH. OR YEAH. AND LONG TERM OPERATIONS. I MEAN IT'S A GREAT, GREAT EXAMPLE. SEASIDE LAGOON RIGHT. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU BUILD A NEW FACILITY, YOU CHANGE THE AMENITY. WHERE I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL. AND AND WE DO DO IT TO SOME DEGREE, BUT WE DON'T REALLY FORMALIZE THE TEMPLATE PRESENTATION. BUT WHEN THE AMENITY IS A REPLACEMENT AMENITY, RIGHT. WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT QUITE AS MUCH BECAUSE WE'RE REBUILDING SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY IN EXISTENCE AND WE'RE MAINTAINING IT. A LOT OF TIMES, THOUGH, IT'S A NEW AMENITY AND WE NEED TO BE HONEST ABOUT ONCE YOU BUILD THAT NEW AMENITY, YOU GOT TO BE PREPARED TO REPAIR AND MAINTAIN THAT NEW AMENITY. A GREAT EXAMPLE IS THE MORE BIKE LANES WE INSTALL IN THE CITY, THEY LOOK FABULOUS AND WE GET THEM DONE AS PART OF INITIAL GRANT AWARDS AND CONSTRUCTION EFFORTS. BUT FIVE, TEN YEARS FROM NOW, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE REFRESHED. YOU KNOW, THE MORE PAINT YOU PUT ON THE GROUND, THE MORE PAINT YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN. SAME THING IN A BUILDING, RIGHT? SO NO, I THINK IT'S A GOOD THOUGHT. AND THERE ARE ONGOING MAINTENANCE AND OPERATING EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH VIRTUALLY ALL PROJECTS, UNLESS IT'S TRULY A REPLACEMENT OF AN EXISTING FEATURE. SO FOR THESE CIPS, JESSE PROMISED THE LAST TIME WHEN HE GAVE THE PRESENTATION, WHEN WE WERE DOING A SPECIAL MEETING WITH THE OTHER COMMISSION, HE PROMISED HE WILL COME BACK TO US ON IN AUGUST. BECAUSE THE OTHER COMMISSION ALSO ASKED THE SAME, THEY HAD THE SAME REQUEST. NOW COMMISSIONER JESTE, YOU PREPARED A TEMPLATE, I DON'T REMEMBER. DID YOU SEND IT TO STEPHANIE OR. NO, YOU HAVE NOT, BECAUSE IT WAS APRIL 30TH THAT YOU SENT ME. SO THEN I WILL SEND IT TO YOU. IT'S A DIFFERENT TEMPLATE. MAYBE WE'LL HAVE JESSE DO IS MAYBE WE'LL START. WE'LL START WITH A CATEGORY. WE'LL START SOMEWHERE. SOMEWHERE AND TRY TO SEE OKAY, IS THIS A FORMAT OR A LAYOUT THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE HELPFUL? AND IS IT STARTING TO COVER WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR? BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE RESPONSIVE ON THIS. I MEAN, WE DO. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T GIVE YOU DATA THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU, BECAUSE IT HAS SO MANY CONTEXT CLUES THAT ARE MISSING FROM THE PRESENTATION. [01:05:08] THAT'S ALL. WE WANT IT TO BE HELPFUL AND NOT CONFUSING OR MISLEADING IN ITSELF. MY CURIOUS QUESTION BACK UP ONE SLIDE. WHEN I SAW THIS PICTURE, THE THOUGHT OCCURRED TO ME THE CITY OWNS SOME REAL ESTATE THERE, RIGHT? THE. ALL OF THAT REAL ESTATE. DO YOU DO YOU HAVE A PNL FOR THE HARBOR? I MEAN, THE THOUGHT OCCURRED TO ME. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE OVERALL BUDGET. WE OWN THIS. WE OWN SOME PIECES UP DOWNSTREAM FROM THIS. I ASSUME YOU ALL HAVE THAT SET UP IN AN ENTITY WHERE YOU CHECK PNL, RIGHT? WE DO. WE DO IT BY, RIGHT NOW THE PNL IS BY FUND, UPLAND'S FUND, TIDELANDS FUND. AND EACH OF THOSE ASSETS GENERATES REVENUE. THAT'S THE TOP OF THAT PNL. AND THEN BELOW THAT ARE ALL THE EXPENDITURES ASSIGNED TO THAT FUND, WHETHER IT BE HARBOR PATROL OR POLICE OPERATIONS OR PUBLIC WORKS MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES. AND THEN BEYOND THAT IS YOU HAVE CAPITAL NEED ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, WHICH IS KIND OF EBBS AND FLOWS. BUT WE DON'T DO IT ON A SITE BY SITE BASIS, BUT WE DO IT AS A BROAD WATERFRONT AMENITY. RIGHT? SO THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE IN THE TIDELANDS OR ON THE PIER HELP PROVIDE THE REVENUE THAT THAT ALLOWS US TO MAINTAIN THE WATERWAYS AND THE AND THE DOCKS AND THE PILES AND THE PIER ITSELF. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT AGGREGATED. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY PROPERTY BY PROPERTY. IT'S MORE AREA BY AREA. OKAY. AND SO YOU'D BE ABLE TO SEE THOSE IF YOU GO TO OUR BUDGET BOOK AND YOU LOOK AT THE FINANCIALS FOR THE HARBOR TIDELANDS AND THE HARBOR UPLANDS, THEY'LL SHOW THE REVENUE AND THE EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH EACH ONE, EACH OF THE FUNDS. MIKE, I. EXCUSE ME. I WONDER IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN DECISION PACKAGE NUMBER 24, THE CROSSING GUARD SERVICES PACKAGE. IT'S GOT WHAT LOOKS LIKE $367,000 AS A ONE TIME COST, I GUESS. AND IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND HOW A TRAFFIC GUARD PROGRAM COULD BE A ONE TIME COST. AND THE AMOUNT IS FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT. THEN ALSO JUST ANOTHER TO ADD TO THAT, I'M SEEING SOMETHING THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT A CORE BUDGET BEING 12 INTERSECTIONS. AND THEN THE DECISION PACKAGE IT LOOKS LIKE ADDS 15 TO THAT. YOU'VE GOT IT RIGHT. AND THEN ANOTHER TWO POSSIBLE ONES. SO THE TOTAL INCREASE IS LIKE OVER 100%. IT'S 142%. AND LOOKING AT THE COST SIDE NOW, IF I UNDERSTAND THAT RIGHT, THE CORE BUDGET STARTS AT 212 SIX. THE DECISION PACKAGE ADDS 15 TO THAT AND IT ADDS $367,000. YEP. AND THEN THE TWO POSSIBLE ADDITIONS ARE $64,000. OKAY. THEN LOOKING AT THAT IN A LITTLE BIT WITH AN ANALYTICAL POINT OF VIEW, WE'RE ADDING 140%, OF OF CROSSING GUARD CAPACITY, I GUESS, AND IT'S COSTING US 203% IN ADDITIONAL COSTS. SO EACH INCREMENTAL ADDITION IS A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL INCREASE. NO RESPONSE REQUIRED. YOU'VE YOU'VE GOT IT 100% CORRECT. SO TELL US ABOUT THAT. WHAT DO WE DO? WHAT ARE WE DOING? HOW HAVE WE GOTTEN INVOLVED WITH 12 TRAFFIC GUARDS AT THIS POINT? AND THAT WE NEED ANOTHER 15 HERE IN THIS NEXT YEAR? YEAH. SO THAT'S, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND IT'S BEEN A IN A POINT OF HOT TOPIC, IF YOU WILL, DURING THE LAST FEW BUDGETS. SO YOU HAVE IT ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THE CORE BUDGET, WHICH IS IF YOU GO BACK IN TIME, HISTORICALLY FUNDED 12 INTERSECTIONS, 12 CROSSING GUARD LOCATIONS WELL OVER TIME COMMUNITY DEMAND, PARENTAL YOU KNOW, SUGGESTION, COUNCIL SUPPORT, ETC. HAS GROWN THAT NUMBER NOW TO 27. WE'VE BEEN A LITTLE BIT HESITANT, THOUGH, TO GO AHEAD AND JUST ABSORB ALL 27 LOCATIONS INTO THE CORE BUDGET. AND WE'VE BEEN SHOWING THIS EXPENSE AS A ONE TIME DECISION PACKAGE TO BASICALLY CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE'RE HAVING TO INVEST IN THIS PROGRAM. IT USED TO BE WE COULD SUPPORT THIS PROGRAM THROUGH INTERNALLY STAFFED CROSSING GUARDS WITH RELATIVE COST EFFECTIVENESS. [01:10:09] THAT HAS BECOME EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT WITH THE RISING COST OF MINIMUM WAGE. COMPETITION FOR MINIMUM WAGE TYPE EMPLOYMENT WITHIN OTHER SECTORS AT HIGHER LEVELS. SO WE HAVE HAD TO DO A COUPLE OF THINGS IN ORDER TO EVEN FILL THE SPOTS. WE'VE HAD TO BRING ON CONTRACT SERVICES, WHICH IN THE CASE OF CROSSING GUARDS, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE EXPENSIVE THAN OUR OWN INTERNAL PERSONNEL. BUT THOSE CONTRACTS ARE THE ONLY OPTION FOR US TO HAVE READINESS AT EACH OF THE LOCATIONS. IF WE STAFF A LOCATION AND WE COMMIT TO IT AND OUR OWN EMPLOYEE DOES NOT SHOW UP, WE HAVE TO BRING IN ANOTHER RESOURCE FROM WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT THAT'S GOING TO BE CODE ENFORCEMENT, AN MSO OFFICER, A PARKING ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. AND IN SOME INSTANCES, IT MIGHT BE A POLICE OFFICER BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY PERSON AVAILABLE. THAT'S A MAJOR IMPACT. SO IN ORDER FOR US TO HAVE READINESS AND STAFFING AVAILABILITY, WE'VE DONE MORE CONTRACTING FOR THE NEW LOCATIONS, WHICH IS EXPONENTIALLY INCREASING THE COST. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT AS A CONTINGENCY THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO PUT IN PLACE IF SOMEONE DIDN'T SHOW UP. BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ONGOING COMMITMENT TO PROVIDE A CERTAIN SERVICE, AND WE SHOULDN'T. SO WE TRY TO. SO NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. SO AS THESE POSITIONS, AS THESE LOCATIONS HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE STATIC, WE CONTINUE TO TRY TO HIRE AND HOPEFULLY WE'RE AT THAT POINT WHERE WE'RE BRINGING MORE INTERNAL PERSONNEL ON TO SAVE, SAVE US COSTS THAN TO DEPLOY AND USE THE CONTRACTOR. THAT'S CONTINUE TO PROVE TO BE A CHALLENGE, WHERE I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF STUBBORNNESS, I GUESS, IF YOU WILL, IN US ACCEPTING THE, PERHAPS IF YOU CALL IT, A REALITY THAT WE'RE GOING TO FOREVER STAFF 27 LOCATIONS. MOST COMMUNITIES DON'T STAFF ON A PER CAPITA BASIS THIS NUMBER OF LOCATIONS. SO WE'VE BEEN RESISTANT TO ABSORB IT INTO CORE AND TO MAKE THAT FULL COMMITMENT. AND WE CONTINUE TO SORT OF TALK ABOUT THIS. IS THIS A PROGRAM WE'RE GOING TO FOREVER IMPLEMENT AND FOREVER MAINTAIN? OR DO WE WANT TO STOP AND AND MAYBE LOOK AT THIS AND EITHER LOOK FOR ALTERNATIVE WAYS TO DELIVER THE SERVICE THAT ARE MORE THAT MIGHT BE VOLUNTEER BASED ? OR. LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT FOR JUST A MINUTE. AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADING. WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT. WE TOOK A RUN AT IT TWO YEARS AGO. IT DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE. THE PARENTS, WE COULDN'T QUITE GET ENOUGH SUSTAINED SUPPORT. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER RUN AT IT. I THINK THIS YEAR. IT'S THE PERFECT POSITION FOR A RETIRED PERSON THAT WANTS TO BE INVOLVED. TWO HOURS IN THE MORNING, TWO HOURS IN THE AFTERNOON. GET GET A PLACE READY FOR ME, WILL YOU? YEAH. HEY, LISTEN. HEY, WITH THE KIDS. COME ON. I LOVE IT. LET'S DO SOME TRIALS AND SEE WHAT WE CAN CAN DO. I LIKE IT. ASK FOR SOME VOLUNTEERS AND SEE WHAT YOU GET. WHERE? WHERE? THIS IS HEADING? THE COUNCIL. $30,000 A YEAR FOR FOUR HOURS A DAY. WE CAN SAVE A LOT OF MONEY. WE COULD SAVE $300,000 HERE. EXACTLY. AND THAT'S SO THE COUNCIL, I THINK, IS TALKING ABOUT MAYBE FORMING A SUBCOMMITTEE TO REALLY GO OUT AND MAYBE HIT THE COMMUNITY, SEE IF WE CAN GATHER VOLUNTEERS. THERE USED TO BE A PROGRAM THAT I THINK THEY CALLED IT THE VOLUNTEER PATROL PROGRAM THAT THAT KIDS ACTUALLY WERE PART OF WITH PARENTAL VOLUNTEERS SUPPORTING THEM. SO WE'RE WE'RE EXPLORING THAT. AND MAYBE ALSO THE POLICE CADETS, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE SOME KIND OF COMBINATION OF PERHAPS OF THAT AND HAVE THAT BE A SERVICE THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE INVOLVED WITH THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT WOULD IMPROVE THE COMMUNITY RELATIONS, GIVE THE POLICE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ONE MORE OPPORTUNITY. ONE MORE OPPORTUNITY. YEAH, YEAH. NO, I LOVE THE IDEA. IF WE COULD GET SUSTAINED COMMITMENT FROM VOLUNTEERS, IT WOULD IT WOULD CERTAINLY ALLEVIATE THIS PRESSURE. BUT THAT'S REALLY WHY WE CONTINUE TO SHOW THIS AS A DECISION PACKAGE, BECAUSE WE REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT. I MEAN, THIS IS A $600,000 A YEAR PROGRAM NOW. THAT'S A HUGE NUMBER. IT'S A HUGE NUMBER AND IT'S VERY MUCH APPRECIATED IN THE COMMUNITY. PARENTS LOVE IT. OF COURSE, WE LOVE HAVING IT. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT FUTURE COST ALLOCATION AND YOU AND YOU LOOK AT STRUCTURAL, YOU KNOW, GAPS, YOU THINK TO YOURSELF, WOW, IS THIS SOMETHING WE CAN AFFORD AT THAT AMOUNT IN PERPETUITY, I DON'T KNOW. SO THE HOMELESS PEOPLE WILL BE INVOLVED IN IT? THE. SO THE HOMELESS PEOPLE, CAN THEY BE INVOLVED WITH IT? WELL, IT TAKES COMMITMENT, FOR A VOLUNTEER TO DO IT YOU NEED COMMITMENT AND RELIABILITY. YOU NEED TO BE THERE IN THE MORNING. YOU GOT TO BE THERE IN THE AFTERNOON AND YOU GOT TO DO IT WITHOUT FAIL, RAIN OR SHINE. AND THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE TEND TO FALL OFF. SO YOU CAN GET A FEW FOLKS EXCITED. AND THEN A COUPLE WEEKS INTO IT, THEY KIND OF LOSE ENTHUSIASM. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST. BUT WE'RE GOING TO KEEP TRYING AND LOOK, AND IT MAY IN ITSELF TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IF IF WE CAN'T GET COMMUNITY ENTHUSIASM TO SUPPORT IT, EITHER THROUGH PRIVATE FUNDRAISING OR VOLUNTEER EFFORT, MAYBE THAT'S A MESSAGE TO US THAT WE DON'T NEED 27. [01:15:05] MAYBE WE GOT TO SCALE IT BACK A LITTLE BIT. AND ALL OTHER CITIES ARE ALSO PAYING, SO IT WOULD BE HARD TO FIND VOLUNTEERS IF THEY CAN GO AND DO THE SAME THING SOMEWHERE ELSE AND GET PAID. WELL, THEY CAN GET PAID FOR US. WE'RE TAKING APPLICATIONS ALL THE TIME. IF WE GOT SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO EARN, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE HOURS A DAY, WE'LL TAKE THAT APPLICATION RIGHT NOW. BUT IT'S BEEN HARD. IT'S BEEN HARD TO RECRUIT FOR THIS. IT REALLY HAS BECAUSE IT IS . IT'S A BIG EXPENSE FOR ALL CITIES, NOT JUST US. YEAH, IT'S TOUGH FOR EVERYBODY. A LOT OF OF RETIREES, TO YOUR POINT. YOU KNOW, THEY LOVE TO DO IT. BUT WHAT I'VE NOTICED IS A LOT OF THEM SAY, WELL, HEY, I'D LOVE TO DO IT, BUT I GOT A CRUISE IN SEPTEMBER SO I CAN'T BE THERE IN SEPTEMBER. AND THEN I'VE GOT A TRIP. I DON'T KNOW, JERRY. YOU KNOW, I GOT A TRIP PLANNED IN MARCH, AND I. SO NOT EVERYBODY'S WILLING TO GIVE YOU THAT NINE MONTH, TEN MONTH COMMITMENT THAT YOU NEED TO BE RELIABLE. SO. YEAH. WE ALSO DON'T LIKE TO GET OUT AT 7:00 IN THE MORNING. IT'S A LITTLE EARLY FOR SOME OF OUR FOLKS. SO UNLESS YOU'RE GOING TO SERVE BREAKFAST. [LAUGHTER] THAT'S TRUE. HOW MANY NET NEW POSITIONS AUTHORIZED POSITIONS ARE INCLUDED THIS YEAR? NOT NOT A LOT OF NET NET NEW. WE ARE REORGANIZING TO CREATE, JUST TO SPEAK TO FTES. WE'RE ADDING, WE'VE TRIALED THIS LAST YEAR. WE ARE ADDING ONE POSITION IN THE HARBOR PATROL UNIT. WE'RE PROPOSING TO BRING A HARBORMASTER, A CAPTAIN POSITION TO THAT UNIT. WE PILOTED THAT THIS FISCAL YEAR. WE'RE PROPOSING TO HAVE THAT POSITION IN THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR. BUT WE'RE PROPOSING TO USE THE, THERE WAS A CIVILIAN EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS COORDINATOR POSITION THAT HAD BEEN PUT IN THE BUDGET WERE IN EFFECT ELIMINATING THAT PULLING THOSE DUTIES INTO THE HARBORMASTER POSITION. SO IT'S A ONE FOR ONE IN TERMS OF NET BODIES. BUT THE CAPTAIN, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE CIVILIAN COORDINATOR. BUT THEY WILL HAVE EFFECTIVELY DUAL PURPOSE. SO THAT'S ONE NEW POSITION. NOT BUT IT'S NOT REALLY A NEW POSITION IN TERMS OF HEADCOUNT. WE ALSO HAVE A PART TIME SOCIAL MEDIA COORDINATOR IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT DOES A FABULOUS JOB. WE'RE WE'RE GETTING RID OF A VACANT POSITION ON THE CIVILIAN SIDE OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND WE'RE UPGRADING THAT SOCIAL MEDIA POSITION INTO A FULL TIME CITYWIDE SOCIAL MEDIA COORDINATOR, SO THAT INDIVIDUAL WILL NOT JUST HELP PRODUCE CONTENT FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT NOW FIRE COMMUNITY SERVICES, PUBLIC WORKS, BUT AGAIN, ELIMINATING ONE. WE'RE REORGANIZING, IN A SENSE. WE'RE ADDING ONE NEW POSITION. WE'RE ADDING AN MSO SUPERVISOR, MUNICIPAL SERVICES OFFICER SUPERVISOR. BUT WE DON'T EXPECT IT TO COST US MUCH, IF ANY, MONEY. BECAUSE WHEN WE'VE ADDED MSOS IN THE PAST, THEY TEND TO GENERATE OFFSETTING TICKET REVENUE TO PAY FOR THE POSITION. SO THE MSO SUPERVISOR POSITION WE'RE ADDING IS MEANT TO PROVIDE WEEKEND SUPERVISION OF OUR MSO RESPONSE, WHICH IS OUR PARKING ENFORCEMENT, MSO REVIEW, AND SUPPORT FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF OFFENSES THROUGHOUT THE CITY. RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A SUPERVISOR TO MANAGE THE FOLKS MIDWEEK, WE DON'T HAVE ANY WEEKEND SUPERVISION COVERAGE. THEY RELY ON THE WATCH COMMANDER. SO THAT, WE THINK WILL ACTUALLY GENERATE FOR US BETTER, MORE TARGETED ENFORCEMENT, BETTER CORRECTIVE BEHAVIOR AND LIKELY OFFSETTING REVENUE. SO THOSE ARE, AM I MISSING ONE STEPHANIE? I THINK YEAH. WE'RE ALSO PROPOSING THE SENIOR ANALYST AND COMMUNITY SERVICES. THERE IS A SENIOR MANAGEMENT ANALYST POSITION IN THE COMMUNITY SERVICES DEPARTMENT THAT WE'RE PROPOSING. IT'S GOING TO IT'S GOING TO MOONLIGHT BETWEEN PUBLIC WORKS AND COMMUNITY SERVICES. IT'S BEING FUNDED THROUGH MEASURE A GRANT MONIES. SO THOSE ARE THE FOUR POSITIONS IN THE BUDGET. I MEAN, WE HAVE BEEN VERY YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR POSITIONS, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. THERE ALWAYS IS. OUR PHILOSOPHY THIS YEAR WAS NOT WITH A $3.5 MILLION TRANSFER FROM THE PENSION FUND. SO VERY CAUTIOUS THERE. AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE COUNTY DOING WITH THE ENTRANCE RAMP ON AVENUE A? WELL, THEY HAVE THEY I THINK THEY'VE I THINK WE HAVE OUR HAVE HAD OUR CDBG HEARING. THE PLANS ARE DONE. THE PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS ARE FINALLY DONE. THEY GOT THROUGH THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL WORK. OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT HAS REVIEWED THEM. I THINK WE'VE APPROVED THE PLAN SET FROM AN ENTITLEMENT STANDPOINT. BUT THEY DON'T, THEY SAY NOW THAT THEY DON'T HAVE FUNDING TO EXECUTE THE PROJECT UNTIL SUMMER OF 26. I THINK. I THINK WE'RE A YEAR AWAY, SO THEY'RE MOVING ON IT. THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, NOT SUPER QUICKLY. SO ONE OF THE BUDGET RESPONSE REPORTS FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS SEEKING SOME SIGNIFICANT INCREASES IN THE THE COST OF THE DRONE PROGRAM ONE OF THE DECISION PACKAGES, THE DECISION PACKAGE. NOT AN INCREASE. IT'S JUST ABSORBING IT INTO CORE BUDGET. [01:20:04] WELL, FROM WHAT I READ, THERE'S A CURRENT COST OF, I BELIEVE IT WAS 165,000. I'M SORRY. POTENTIALLY, IF THE AERODOME CONTRACT GETS THE FAA CERTIFICATION. SO THERE'S A, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A CONTRACT WITH AERODOME THAT IS LESS EXPENSIVE BECAUSE IT REQUIRES SOME ADDITIONAL SUPPORTING PERSONNEL TO DO. I THINK IT'S LIKE A FLY WATCH. I FORGET THE TERM OF ART FOR IT. SO THERE'S AN EXTRA BODY THAT HAS TO BE THERE TO SUPPORT THE DRONE PROGRAM. WHAT AERODOME IS PROPOSING TO DO, AND THEY HAVE, I THINK THEY'VE RECEIVED. JOE CAN ANSWER THIS BETTER THAN ME. I BELIEVE THEY'VE RECEIVED PRELIMINARY APPROVAL FROM THE FEDS TO ALLOW FOR WHAT THEY'RE CALLING AUTO RETURN. SO THERE WILL BE A TECHNOLOGICAL FEATURE WHERE THE DRONE CAN BE RELEASED AND THEN WOULD RETURN SAFELY UNDER FAA GUIDELINES WITHOUT NEEDING A SPOTTER. I THINK MAYBE THE SPOTTER IS THE TERM. IF THEY OBTAIN THAT AND IT'S THE TECHNOLOGY IS PROVEN TO BE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO BE DEMOING OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR. OUR INTENTION IS TO INCREASE THAT CONTRACT AMOUNT, BUT IT WILL SAVE US ON THE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SPOTTING CALCULATION. SO I'M JUST CURIOUS. WE'VE HAD A DRONE PROGRAM NOW FOR FOUR YEARS. FIVE YEARS. YEAH, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT EVEN. HOW EFFECTIVE HAS IT BEEN? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE WE CAUGHT WITH DRONES? IT HAS BEEN CRIMES. HAVE WE STOPPED AND. WELL, I WOULD SAY. HOW MANY? WELL, IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY HOW MANY CRIMES WE'VE PREVENTED BECAUSE WE BELIEVE QUITE A FEW. THE DRONE PROGRAM HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE IN PROVIDING OUR OFFICERS SAFE INFORMATION IN ARRIVING TO A SCENE OR AN INCIDENT. AND IT HAS BEEN EXCEEDINGLY HELPFUL IN GENERATING INFORMATION THAT HAS LED TO INVESTIGATIVE AND THEN ARREST. JOE COULD GIVE YOU THE EXACT NUMBERS. THE OTHER THING IT'S DONE IS IT PROVIDES US A PRESENCE FOR SPECIAL EVENTS THAT ALLOWS US TO REACT TO INCIDENTS BOTH FOR POLICE MATTERS AND EMERGENCY RESPONSE. BEACH LIFE, AS AN EXAMPLE. RIGHT. WE HAVE OUR DRONE UP. IF THERE'S A MEDICAL INCIDENT AND THERE'S A CALL FOR SUPPORT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROWD, WE'RE ABLE TO USE THE INFORMATION WE GATHER FROM THAT DRONE TO DIRECT OUR EMS PERSONNEL TO THAT SPOT VERY DIRECTLY. WELL, I'M CURIOUS BECAUSE WHEN WE STARTED THE PROGRAM, AS I RECALL, WE WERE GOING TO CONTRACT A PORTION OF IT OR, OR BASICALLY CONTRACT THE PROGRAM. AND ULTIMATELY WE WERE GOING TO TAKE IT OVER OURSELVES. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE CONTINUING TO CONTRACT AND I'M TRYING TO GET. FLYING LINE. YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THE TERM FLYING LINE WAS THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT. THEY WERE THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR, AERODOME I BELIEVE, ACQUIRED FLYING LINE, AS I RECALL. AERODOME THOUGH THEIR WHOLE TECHNOLOGY IS IS EFFECTIVELY AUTOPILOT, NOT FROM THE SPOTTER, BUT FROM EMERGENCY DISPATCH FROM OUR EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS CENTER. WE'RE NOW ABLE TO PILOT THE DRONE EFFECTIVELY FROM OUR DISPATCH CENTER. SO. AND IF THIS AERODOME CERTIFICATE COMES THROUGH, IT'S GOING TO ALLOW US TO ELIMINATE THAT NEED FOR THAT ROOFTOP SPOTTER. I THINK THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. DON'T QUOTE ME. I'M JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE WE WERE GOING TO TAKE MORE AND MORE OF IT INTERNALLY AND IT WAS GOING TO REDUCE THE ONGOING COST. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GROWING THE ONGOING COST. WELL, I THINK THAT THE THE CAPABILITY OF THE DRONE NOW TO HAVE THIS AUTO RETURN IS GROWING THE CONTRACT COST BUT I THINK IT MIGHT BE OFFSETTING IN OTHER AREAS. SO AND I'M HAPPY TO, YOU KNOW, GET SOME MORE OF THAT INFO FOR YOU. I WAS JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE THAT THAT CAUGHT MY EYE. THE OTHER THING THAT CAUGHT MY EYE IN THE CIP IS THIS QUESTION THAT'S BEEN SWIRLING AROUND FOR A WHILE ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO BUY A $17 MILLION FIRING RANGE FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. RIGHT, RIGHT. LOOKS LIKE IF I'M READING IT CORRECTLY, IF IT HASN'T ALREADY GONE OUT, THERE'S A PLAN TO ALMOST IMMEDIATELY GO OUT TO CONTRACT FOR DESIGN OF THIS THING. SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'RE PREPARING A FEDERAL GRANT APPLICATION RIGHT NOW. SO WE'VE DONE WORK TO PREPARE AND ADVANCE THE CONCEPT TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN APPLY FOR FEDERAL FUNDS. THERE'S A MILITARY GRANT THAT'S AVAILABLE FOR THIS PRODUCT BY PARTNERING WITH SPACE FORCE OR THE LA AIR FORCE BASE. THE LA AIR FORCE BASE IS VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS. THEY HAVE NO PLACE FOR THEIR FOLKS TO TRAIN AND STAY WEAPONS CERTIFIED ON THE BASE. THEY HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY TO MARCH OUT IN MORENO VALLEY TO TRAIN, WHICH IS FOR THOSE WHO DRIVE OUT THERE. IT'S A LONG WAYS AWAY. SO WE'RE PARTNERING WITH THEM, AND WE'RE GOING TO APPLY FOR A FEDERAL GRANT FOR $17 MILLION TO COVER THE COST, TO BUILD A NEW RANGE, AND TO ALLOW US TO RELOCATE THE PARKS YARD AND BUILD A NEW PARKS YARD. AND WE'RE EXPECTING THAT THE MILITARY WILL PAY SOME ONGOING FEE FOR USE OF IT. WELL, THERE IS THAT POSSIBILITY THROUGH AN MOU, IF ONLY LA AIR FORCE BASE, IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL TO BUILD THIS, [01:25:08] THE EXPECTATION IS THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL USER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR MUNITIONS AND THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH FIRING AND PRACTICING. NOW, GENERAL MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS OF FACILITY WOULD BE PROVIDED BY US AS THE ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCY, THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING. WE HAVE SOME OF THOSE EXPENSES TODAY. THERE WILL BE SOME INCREASED UTILITIES WITH AN INDOOR VENUE, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. SO THAT WILL HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR. THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR US TO ADD OTHER PARTNERS. HOMELAND SECURITY HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST. THE COAST GUARD'S EXPRESSED INTEREST. THE MARINE BASE AT SEAL BEACH HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST. WE'RE BEING CAREFUL. WE'RE NOT THERE WITH BRINGING ON OTHER AGENCIES JUST YET, BUT THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR INCREASED PARTNERSHIP TO HELP OFFSET THE OPERATING COSTS. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE STAYING FOCUSED WITH LA AIR FORCE BASE TRYING TO OBTAIN THE CONSTRUCTION GRANT. AND IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL IN THAT, WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FUND ITS FULL REBUILD AND THEN POTENTIALLY CONSIDER BRINGING ON PARTNERS TO HELP DEFRAY WHAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS RANGE AND THE OTHER RANGES THAT EXIST THROUGHOUT LOS ANGELES COUNTY. THERE AREN'T THAT MANY RANGES THAT EXIST THROUGHOUT LOS ANGELES COUNTY THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN TRAIN AT. THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, HAWTHORNE, HERMOSA BEACH. THEY HAVE, WELL NO, HERMOSA DOESN'T HAVE A RANGE THAT THEY CAN TRAIN FROM. OKAY. THEY. HAWTHORNE? I DON'T, HAWTHORNE MIGHT HAVE ONE IN THEIR BASEMENT. I THINK IT'S ENOUGH TO DRIVE A CAR IN. YEAH, SO THAT ONE I HAVEN'T BEEN IN. THERE ARE LIMITATIONS ON AVAILABILITY AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO FOR EVERY AGENCY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE CALCULATION OBVIOUSLY IN THIS CASE. RIGHT. WE'RE WE'RE HOPING TO SPEND THIRD PARTY FUNDS TO BUILD THE RANGE. THAT'S THE PLAN. WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS $17 MILLION IS ABOUT 12% OF OUR OPERATING BUDGET. IF WE CAN GET A GRANT WE'RE STILL STUCK AT PROBABLY 4 OR $5 MILLION OUT OF POCKET AND ONGOING COST OF OWNERSHIP. NOT OUT OF POCKET. WE'RE NOT AT, THERE'S NO OUT OF POCKET WITH THE GRANT REQUEST THAT WE'RE WRITING FOR. IT'S 100% FEDERALLY FUNDED APPLICATION. SO WE'RE ASKING FOR A WAIVER. SO THERE'S TWO THERE'S TWO APPROACHES TO THE GRANT. THERE'S A 70-30 SPLIT, WHICH IS THE MORE TRADITIONAL APPROACH. THERE'S ALSO TWO DIFFERENT WAYS TO APPLY AND RECEIVE 100% FEDERAL FUNDING. A LETTER FROM ONE OF THE SECRETARIES OF THE VARIOUS MILITARY BRANCHES IN SUPPORT OF IT, WHICH WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE WE HAVE A GOOD CHANCE AT OBTAINING. THE OTHER IS THERE'S A WHAT THEY CALL A RURAL STANDARD, WHICH SOUNDS A LITTLE SILLY TO US BECAUSE WE DON'T FEEL LIKE A RURAL COMMUNITY. BUT THE FEDS DEFINE A RURAL COMMUNITY AS A CITY OF 100,000 PEOPLE OR LESS. WE QUALIFY UNDER THAT TO HAVE THE 30% MATCH WAIVED. SO THAT'S HOW WE'RE APPLYING. SO WE'RE HOPING THAT THE FEDS WOULD WILL FULLY PICK UP THE COST OF THIS RANGE. AND IF THEY DO, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT, OKAY, HOW DO WE COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION OF THE NEW PARKS YARD THAT WOULD BE RELOCATED AS A RESULT OF THAT? SO THAT WOULD BE OUR CHALLENGE. WE WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT. AND THEN WHAT IS THE IMPACT NOW? WE HAVE AN IMPACT TODAY IN A VERY DINGY RANGE THAT, AS YOU KNOW, HAS A LOT OF IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY. SO THERE ARE WAYS TO DO RANGES THAT ARE FAR LESS EXPENSIVE THAN $17 MILLION. I MEAN, COULD BE. AM I HEARING YOU RIGHT, THAT IF WE DON'T GET 100% MATCH OR 100% COVERAGE WE'RE NOT GOING TO PURSUE 17 MILLION? WELL, WE'RE GOING TO PURSUE THE 17 MILLION. IF WE IF FOR SOME REASON WE DIDN'T GET THE FULL MATCH THAT APPLICATION THEN DIES, AND THEN IT'S A DIFFERENT DECISION FOR THE COUNCIL. WOULD THEY CONSIDER. I DON'T THINK THEY NECESSARILY WOULD HAVE APPROVED IT AS, HEY, I KNOW YOU APPLIED FOR 100% FUNDING. WE'RE ONLY WILLING TO GIVE YOU 70%. MAYBE THEY WOULD. THEN THE COUNCIL, OF COURSE, WOULD HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE. ARE WE GOING TO COME UP WITH THE BALANCE TO COVER THAT? SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY HOPEFULLY TO SPEND FEDERAL FUNDS TO, TO ACHIEVE A REALLY GREAT IMPROVEMENT. IF YOU LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD OR ANYWHERE CLOSE TO IT, YOU HEAR THE RANGE VERY REGULARLY. IT'S A BIG IMPACT AND IT'S NOT AN IDEAL PLACE FOR US TO BE TRAINING. AND THE OTHER DOWNSIDE TO TAKING THAT TRAINING PROGRAM OUT OF THE CITY IS THE TIME AND ENERGY SPENT TO GET TO THOSE LOCATIONS. WE PAY. WE'RE ON THE HOOK FOR STAFFING, FOR TRAVEL TIME IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE. SO THEM BEING ABLE TO TRAIN INSIDE THE CITY IS A VALUE TO US OPERATIONALLY. BUT YEAH. GOOD QUESTIONS. ANYONE ELSE ANY QUESTIONS. BECAUSE I DO HAVE. ALL RIGHTY. SO THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT BUDGET PRESENTATION OF THE ENTIRE YEAR. AND IT HAS TEN SLIDES. WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT THERE ISN'T ENOUGH INFORMATION PRESENTED TO US THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY, [01:30:05] AS A COMMISSION LOOKING AT THIS, BE ABLE TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL WHAT WE CAN CUT, WHAT WE CAN DO BASED ON THIS PRESENTATION. WELL, YOU SHOULD BE YOU SHOULD BE BASING THIS ON THIS. I MEAN, HOPEFULLY YOU'VE HAD THIS SINCE MAY 15TH. I ASSUME THAT THE LINK'S BEEN. IT'S ON THE WEBSITE. YEAH. THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE REALLY BASING THIS ON. THIS IS A HIGH LEVEL SUMMARY. I MEAN, I COULD SIT HERE AND PRESENT TO YOU FOR TWO HOURS. WELL, ACTUALLY, I PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE. IT'S A VERY LONG AND LARGE DOCUMENT, SO. YEAH. SO YOUR GOAL HERE ISN'T TO NECESSARILY YOU CAN DO AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE WITH YOUR INPUT TO COUNCIL AS YOU'D LIKE. ARE THERE SPECIFIC IN THE PAST AS AN EXAMPLE, THE COMMISSION MAY SAY I LOVE DECISION PACKAGES ONE THROUGH 50. I MEAN, MEL'S BEEN AROUND A WHILE JERRY'S SEEN THIS TOO. MANY OF YOU HAVE. BUT I YOU KNOW, I REALLY WISH I THINK THE COUNCIL SHOULD HOLD OFF ON DECISION PACKAGE FOUR, SIX AND TEN. WE JUST WE DON'T SEE THE VALUE IN IT OR. HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? LOVE THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING FEE INCREASES HERE. MAYBE YOU SHOULD CONSIDER DOING MORE OF THAT. SO THAT'S THE KIND OF INPUT THAT WOULD BE GENERALLY PROVIDED. THIS IS TYPICALLY THE FORMAT YOU WOULD RECEIVE THIS INFORMATION. SO WE'RE DIPPING INTO OUR RESERVES AND I TO BE PRESENTED SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK AND SEE OKAY, WELL WHAT ELSE IS THERE THAT WE DON'T REALLY NEED? WE CAN LOOK AT IT AS A PLAN B, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK INTO JUST AN EXAMPLE. SO WE DON'T HAVE TO DIP INTO OUR RESERVES. TO DIP INTO RESERVES, THAT'S A BIG DEAL. SURE. IT'S NOT A DEFICIT, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY A RED FLAG. YEAH. SO FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT GOING ON AND NOT HAVING ENOUGH INFORMATION TO PROVIDE DURING A PRESENTATION BECAUSE THE PUBLIC, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO AND DIG INTO THOSE REPORTS ON A WEBSITE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE. THAT'S WHAT THE PRESENTATIONS ARE FOR. SO THAT THEY'RE MORE COMPREHENSIBLE, EASY TO UNDERSTAND, AND TRANSPARENT TO THE PUBLIC. THIS IS, WHAT YOU HAVE IS THE PROPOSED BUDGET, IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT USING THE 3.5 MILLION, THEN THAT WOULD BE YOUR INPUT TO COUNCIL. I THINK THE COUNCIL SHOULD LOOK FOR WAYS TO REDUCE SPENDING AS OPPOSED TO SPENDING MONEY TRANSFERRING MONEY FROM THE RESERVE. THAT WOULD BE YOUR GENERAL INPUT. IT'S NOT, IT ISN'T REALLY YOUR CHARGE TO SAY TODAY SPECIFICALLY, I PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING $3.5 MILLION IN CUTS TO OFFSET THAT AMOUNT. YOU DON'T HAVE THAT OBLIGATION. RIGHT. BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE IN A PRESENTATION THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THAT BOOK, THINGS THAT WE SHOULD REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO. FOR EXAMPLE AND I KNOW THIS IS NOT UNDER YOUR UMBRELLA. I SAW A LINE ITEM FROM CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE INCREASE OF $2 MILLION FROM A $500,000. IT WAS CONTRACTUAL SERVICES. SO FOR US TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THOSE INCREASES. HOW IS OUR BUDGET INCREASING, OUR EXPENDITURE INCREASING? DO YOU KNOW WHAT AREA OF THE BOOK THAT WAS IN? WE PROBABLY COULD ANSWER. IF YOU SEARCH FOR. THEY CAN GET ON A WEBSITE AND YOU SEARCH FOR CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. YOU'LL SEE IT. THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE. THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE. IT'S AN EXAMPLE. AND I DON'T KNOW, I MEAN, I THINK FINANCE MAYBE STEPHANIE KNOWS WHAT THAT ADDITIONAL $2 MILLION CONTRACTUAL SERVICES ARE FOR. THEY DON'T HAVE, THEIR CONTRACTUAL BUDGETS NOT GROWING BY $2 MILLION. SO, IF I CAN JUST SAY, I THINK FOR THE $2 MILLION, I THINK YOU'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE PRIOR YEAR AT FISCAL YEAR 24, 25 REVISED BUDGET. THAT'S A $2 MILLION BUDGET BECAUSE WE ALLOCATED THINGS A LITTLE OVER $1 MILLION IN ONE TIME FUNDS IN FISCAL YEAR 24-25 FOR A SPECIFIC LITIGATION, WHICH IS ONE TIME FUNDS, AND THE BUDGET FOR THAT LINE ITEM ACTUALLY DROPS BACK DOWN TO ABOUT $200,000 IN THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR. BUT THOSE ARE KIND OF THINGS THAT IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE. AND AND I'VE SEEN THIS IN ALL OTHER CITIES. A FEW CITIES, WHEN THEY PRESENT THE MOST IMPORTANT BUDGET PRESENTATION OF THE YEAR, THEY PRESENT THE DEPARTMENTS LINE ITEMS FOR EACH DEPARTMENT, EACH. THERE ARE OTHER SIGNIFICANT CHANGES. ALL THE YEAH, ALL THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES UP OR DOWN. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN YEARS GONE BY. IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE IF THERE WAS A TABLE, ONCE AGAIN BY DEPARTMENT THAT SAID, THESE ARE THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THIS DEPARTMENT LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE ALL DECIPHERING 750 PAGES. THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES ARE SUMMARIZED IN THE DECISION PACKAGES. [01:35:03] RIGHT. SO EVERYTHING ELSE IS BUSINESS AS USUAL BY DEPARTMENT. IF YOU'RE CURIOUS ABOUT YEAR OVER YEAR TOTAL AMOUNTS, THOSE ARE IN THE DEPARTMENT LINE ITEM PAGES, WHICH ARE OUR. BUT YOU SHOULD BE PRESENTING THAT TO THE PUBLIC. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IT SHOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC. AND THAT'S WHY OUR PUBLIC IS TELLING THAT THE CITY IS NOT BEING TRANSPARENT BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT INFORMATION. YOU JUST HAVE TO COMMUNICATE. WELL, I OF ALL DUE RESPECT, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF BUDGETS IN MY DAY. WE ARE THE ONLY CITY THAT PREPARES YEAR OVER YEAR BUDGET MODIFICATIONS AND HIGHLIGHTS THEM IN THE FORM OF A INDEPENDENT DECISION PACKAGE. WE'RE THE ONLY GROUP THAT DOES THAT. THAT IS THE 40. WHAT DO WE HAVE IN TOTAL? THE 52 DECISION PACKAGES ARE THE, THAT IS THE MOST TRANSPARENT WAY ANYONE CAN PRODUCE A YEAR OVER YEAR BUDGET. THOSE ARE YOUR BUDGET CHANGES. THOSE 52 ACTION ITEMS ARE ARE WHAT IS CONSIDERED A CHANGE FROM CORE OPERATIONS. YEAR OVER YEAR, VERY FEW CITIES DO IT THAT TRANSPARENTLY. AND IN THAT KIND OF A FORMAT, THOSE PAGES LAY OUT EVERY CHANGE. THAT'S WHERE YOUR ENERGY SHOULD BE FOCUSED. ASIDE FROM THAT, AND THIS IS WITH MEL'S AND OTHERS SUGGESTIONS OVER THE YEARS, WE NOW PROVIDE LINE ITEM DETAIL BY DEPARTMENT. SO YOU CAN SEE AGGREGATED COSTS YEAR OVER YEAR AND HOW THEY HAVE CHANGED. YES. THAT'S ALL. IT'S ALL ON THE WEBSITE. YES. IT'S ALL THERE. SO THAT, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS THAT WHEN YOU PRESENT THE MOST IMPORTANT PRESENTATION OF THE YEAR, THAT YOU PRESENT THAT INFORMATION TO US. SO. AND LISTEN, I APPRECIATE THAT SENTIMENT, WE PRESENT TO THE COUNCIL FOUR TIMES ON THE BUDGET. WE FOCUS VERY CAREFULLY ON EACH OF THESE ISSUES. THERE'S MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY ONE OF THESE CHANGES. OUR FOCUS IS TO GET THIS INFORMATION INTO THE ETHER AND THEN TO ALLOW FOLKS TO DECIPHER IT AND ASK THOSE HIGH LEVEL QUESTIONS, AND THEN WE RESPOND TO THEM. IF YOU WANT THAT KIND OF A CONVERSATION, WHAT MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE IS ONCE THE PROPOSED BUDGET IS PRODUCED IN MAY, YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU FLAG, YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU FLAGGED SOMETHING A HALF A MILLION TO 2 MILLION OR 2 MILLION. PUT A NOTE ON IT, HIGHLIGHT IT. STEPHANIE I'D LIKE, THIS CAUGHT MY ATTENTION. CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A DESCRIPTION OF THIS CHANGE WHEN YOU COME AND PRESENT THE BUDGET AT THE TIME? I CANNOT SPEND TEN HOURS WITH YOU GOING THROUGH EVERY DEPARTMENT'S PAGE. I NEED YOU ALL TO TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO LOOK AT THE PROPOSED BUDGET, FLAG YOUR ISSUES AND THEN GET THOSE QUESTIONS TO US SO WE CAN PREPARE AND PRESENT TO YOU ON THOSE ISSUES. BECAUSE, CANDIDLY, AGAIN, I VIEW THE BUDGET IS SYNTHESIZED THROUGH THE DECISION PACKAGE. I CAN'T LAY THAT OUT ANY MORE TRANSPARENT. OTHER CITIES DO IT AND THEY DO IT. THE PRESENTATIONS THEY DO IS IN AND OUT IN AN HOUR. IT'S AN HOUR PRESENTATION OF SUBSTANCE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY DO IT IN THE WAY YOU'RE DESCRIBING IT. I JUST DON'T. I UNDERSTAND IT'S AN EASY THING TO SAY. IT'S AN EASY THING TO SAY. I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT THERE IS, I COULD NOT CONCEIVABLY GO THROUGH EACH LINE ITEM BY DEPARTMENT. NO YOU DON'T. YOU ONLY GO THROUGH THE SIGNIFICANT ONES. YOU. IN MIKE'S DEFENSE MY BIG ISSUES WERE HOW MUCH DOES IT COST FOR DRONES? AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT BUYING A FIRING RANGE? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY. I'M NOT SURE THAT HE COULD DECIPHER EVERY ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO SATISFY ALL OF US, WITHOUT US PROVIDING HIM SOMETHING UP FRONT. EITHER HIM OR STEPHANIE, SOMETHING UP FRONT THAT SAYS WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THESE THINGS. SO I KIND OF HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MIKE. BUT YOU'VE GOT TO ADMIT, THE BUDGET IS REALLY COMPLEX. IT IS. AND UNLESS YOU GET, YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE GUYS THAT'S BEEN LOOKING AT THIS THING FOR YEARS AND YEARS, SO YOU CAN SPOT ALL THE STRANGE NUMBERS EVERYWHERE. FOR THE REST OF US, IT BECOMES AN EYE CHART AND AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO DECIPHER. AND I THINK. AND I GET THAT AND I RESPECT AND APPRECIATE THAT. AND HOW DO WE GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS SO THAT IT MAKES SENSE EASY? THAT'S WHY MY SUGGESTION ABOUT HAVING A TABLE GOING, THESE ARE ALL THE MILESTONES AND THIS IS WHAT WAS ALLOCATED, AND THIS IS THE DELTA. AND IF THERE NEEDS TO BE A ONE LINE DESCRIPTION, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A WHOLE PAGE, JUST A ONE LINE DESCRIPTION. MAKE IT EASY FOR FOLKS TO READ. OTHER THAN FOLKS LIKE YOURSELF OR STEPHANIE, THAT YOU'RE BURIED IN IT EVERY DAY. WELL, YEAH. AND I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE DOCUMENT IS HARD. IN ITS TOTALITY IT'S A LOT. BUDGET IS COMPLICATED. OUR PROCESS IS COMPLEX. OUR REVENUE SOURCES ARE VARIED. AND THEY'RE MULTIPLE. THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS MY FIRST SUGGESTION TO A NEW COUNCIL MEMBER OR COMMISSIONER WOULD BE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THE CITY MANAGER'S [01:40:06] TRANSMITTAL LETTER LETTER AND GO THROUGH THE DECISION PACKAGES. IT WILL CLEARLY ARTICULATE THE YEAR OVER YEAR CHANGE IN THE PROPOSED BUDGET. THEN FROM THERE, IT'S LOOKING AT THE VARIOUS DEPARTMENT PAGES TO FLAG THOSE ANOMALIES, THE VARIANCE DELTAS THAT YOU MIGHT EXPERIENCE. YOU FLAG ONE IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AND GENERALLY THERE'S A VERY GOOD EXPLANATION FOR THAT. THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT. I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU. NO, NO, I KNOW THAT. YOU'RE NOT. I JUST WANT MORE TRANSPARENCY. THAT THAT WORD, I THINK SOMETIMES CAN GET A LITTLE OVERSTATED. THIS IS, IT'S HARD. IT'S HARD-PRESSED TO PRESENT AND DEVELOP A MORE TRANSPARENT BUDGET THAN THIS. AND YOU REALLY, YOU EXPECT THE PUBLIC TO GO AND DIG THROUGH THOSE NUMBERS AND UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING. I EXPECT THE PUBLIC, IF THEY'RE INTERESTED, TO READ THE CITY MANAGER'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER. THAT'S. AND IF YOU READ THAT AND YOU READ IT CAREFULLY AND YOU LOOK AT THE CHARTS IN THERE, I THINK YOU HAVE A PRETTY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S OCCURRING WITH THE CITY'S BUDGET AT AT THE APPROPRIATE LEVEL. IF THE INTEREST IS IN DEPARTMENT BY DEPARTMENT SPENDING, BY CATEGORY ON A MINUTE LEVEL, THAT'S, THAT IS A WHOLE NOTHER THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER PROCESS TO SATISFY AND ONE THAT TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND ENERGY. YOU JUST PROVIDE ONE SLIDE FOR EACH DEPARTMENT. THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES FOR EACH DEPARTMENT. THAT'S ALL I'VE SEEN. WELL, THERE'S I MEAN, WE COULD PUT THE 53 DECISION PACKAGES IN. A FEW BULLET POINTS, OR WE COULD PUT THEM IN A DEPARTMENT. I MEAN, I SUPPOSE WE COULD CATEGORIZE THE DECISION PACKAGES BY DEPARTMENT IF YOU WERE, IF THAT IS THE LEVEL OF DETAIL YOU WERE INTERESTED IN, THAT IS SOMETHING WE COULD DO IN THE FUTURE. BUT I THINK MAYBE TO YOUR POINT, CHAIR ALLEN, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE THE DEPARTMENT SECTIONS, WHICH YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY BE DOING, THE NUMBER THAT'S IN THE FISCAL YEAR 25-26 PROPOSED BUDGET THAT INCLUDES NO CHANGES, NONE OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES THAT THE CITY MANAGER IS MENTIONING, THAT IS OUR CORE BUDGET AND OUR PERSONNEL WITH ANY OF THE INCREASES BASED ON MOUS. SO GENERALLY, THE YEAR OVER YEAR IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING LIKE, THERE ARE LARGE ONE TIME FUNDS. WE'RE NOT CONTINUING THOSE. OTHER THAN THAT, AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, EXPENSES HAVE MOVED BETWEEN DIVISIONS. THERE AREN'T THAT MANY CHANGES. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE JUST AREN'T REALLY CHANGES. SO IN EACH SECTION YOU HAVE THE MISSION, DESCRIPTION MAIN CATEGORIES, AND YOU HAVE THEIR HISTORICAL SPENDING. AND THEN YOU CAN REFER TO THEIR PROPOSED CHANGES FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR. SO FOR PUBLIC WORKS, NO CHANGES IN STAFF, NO CHANGES IN INCREASING THIS PROJECT, THE COST, NO CHANGES IN ANYTHING. THAT'S IT. COPY PASTE FROM LAST YEAR. THAT'S ALL IT IS. OKAY. AND THAT'S AND THAT'S EFFECTIVELY WHAT'S HAPPENING EXCEPT FOR THE 53 DECISION PACKAGES. SO WHAT WOULD, I MEAN THAT'S AND MAYBE WHAT I'M HEARING IS THIS IS EASIER TO SYNTHESIZE POTENTIALLY FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, IF THE DECISION PACKAGES ARE ASSIGNED TO A DEPARTMENT OR A FUNCTION, THEN MAYBE THAT BECOMES MORE CLEAR. I MEAN, WE COULD HAVE A PUBLIC WORKS PAGE THAT SAYS THEY'VE GOT FIVE, SIX DECISION PACKAGES, 01, 12, 15, 22 AND 53 IDENTIFY THE CHANGES IN THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT'S BUDGET. SAME THING FOR POLICE, SAME THING FOR FIRE. THAT'S WHAT, THE DPS ARE THE YEAR OVER YEAR CHANGES. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. OKAY. SO CAN I ASK ANOTHER ONE? CAN YOU LOOK AT THE TREASURY'S CONTRACTUAL SERVICE INCREASED BY IT SAYS 245%. IS THAT RIGHT? YOU'RE ON CITY TREASURER. THAT'S 127. THEY HAVE $127,000 CONTRACT. IS THAT ONE YEAR CONTRACT OR IS THAT A FIVE YEARS? THAT WOULD BE THE TOTAL FOR ALL OF THEIR CONTRACTS, FOR ALL THE CONTRACTS THAT THEY'RE. ONE YEAR ONLY OR? FOR THE ONE FISCAL YEAR. CORRECT. SO THEY WENT FROM. SO THE PROPOSED BUDGET IS. DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY WENT FROM 36,000 TO 127,000. WHICH WHICH DOCUMENT ARE YOU LOOKING AT? THE ONE THAT YOU GUYS HAD SENT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT PAGE THAT'S ON? IS IT ON THE ELECTRONIC VERSION OR THE? IT WAS ELECTRONIC VERSION THAT YOU HAD SENT. IT SAYS EXPENDITURES BY OBJECT AND IT'S UNDER CITY TREASURER. I'M LOOKING AT THE SAME TABLE. WE DID MAKE SOME UPDATES TO OUR PRIOR YEAR NUMBERS BECAUSE OUR ADDITIONAL, OUR INITIAL DATA UPLOAD UPLOADED SOME NUMBERS INCORRECTLY FOR 23-24 AND 24-25 FOR PRIOR FISCAL YEARS. [01:45:05] THE THE 25-26 DIDN'T CHANGE. SO SOME OF THE DELTA YEAR OVER YEAR WOULD HAVE CHANGED. AND THESE ARE NOW UPDATED. BUT IF SHE'S LOOKING ON THE ELECTRONIC VERSION, ARE YOU LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW? NO, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE ACCESS TO IT TO LOOK AT IT, BUT I'M LOOKING AT THE, SO IF I'M LOOKING AT THE ACTUALS FROM REVISED 2025, IT WAS 36,000. IF YOU SEARCH. SO. 36880. THAT'S PROBABLY A ONE. I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING. MY GUESS IS WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THE CORE BUDGET FOR THE TREASURER'S OFFICE IS PROBABLY $35,000, WHICH IS REFLECTED IN THE 25-26 NUMBER. AND THEN THE NUMBERS PREVIOUSLY LIKELY INCLUDE ONE TIME CONTRACT FUNDS THAT WERE THERE FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE. I DO KNOW THAT AT ONE POINT, WE HAD PUT MONEY IN THE TREASURER'S OFFICE FOR TO SUPPORT THE SOME MOSS ADAMS REVIEW, SOME AUDIT WORK, SOME SUPPLEMENTAL AUDIT WORK. SO WHAT WOULD THE $127,000 CONTRACT? SO IT WOULD BE A SUM OF MULTIPLE CONTRACTS. THEY HAVE CONTRACTS. THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE. SO HOW CAN THAT BE 127. JOB IS DONE THEN. NO I THINK WELL THAT'S WHY I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE THAT NUMBER COMES FROM. AGAIN, I'M HAPPY TO GO INTO THEIR CONTRACT BY CONTRACT DETAIL. OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T INCLUDE CONTRACT BY CONTRACT DETAIL IN OUR NUMBER. OF THE ELECTRONIC 136. AND IT'S. AND I'M LOOKING AT IT. SHOWING IT WENT FROM 60,000 UP TO 127. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? BUT IT WENT, I JUST THINK YOU'RE LOOKING AT AN OLDER VERSION, WHICH I APOLOGIZE FOR. I THINK. SO WHAT NUMBER DO YOU HAVE? IT IS 127,451. AND WHAT IS THE PREVIOUS YEAR? AND THE PREVIOUS YEAR WAS 120,451. THE SO WE ACTUALLY SPENT LESS BUDGET IN 23-24. THE REVISED BUDGET IS A HIGHER NUMBER. THAT FREQUENTLY HAPPENS BECAUSE THEY DON'T, FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU DON'T FINISH SPENDING ALL THE MONEY IN ONE YEAR AND IT WILL ROLL OVER. THAT, I'M SURE, IS THE CARRYOVER FUNDS FOR THE MOSS ADAMS REVIEW. SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THE ACTUAL SPEND DOES NOT, THAT CONTRACT DIDN'T GET ISSUED. THAT MONEY WAS NOT NECESSARY FROM THE TREASURER'S OFFICE. BUT THAT MONEY IS BEING CARRIED OVER EACH YEAR INTO THE REVISED ACCOUNT. SO THE 2025 REVISED COLUMN THAT SHOWS 127 IS CARRYING OVER A $50,000 SET ASIDE FOR THE TREASURER'S OFFICES PORTION OF THE MOSS ADAMS. AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT WILL BE USED FOR? I MEAN, THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY. MOSS ADAMS CONTRACTS IS A THIRD PARTY REVIEW AND AUDIT REVIEW. SO THE INTENTION IS TO BRING THEM IN. WE DID THIS A FEW YEARS AGO. THIS IS FOR AN AUDIT REVIEW. OKAY. THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S ALL I NEEDED. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR. SO MOSS ADAMS IS AN AUDITING FIRM. YOU PROBABLY WORK WITH THEM. OKAY. IT'S AN AUDITOR. BUT THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR. BUT IT'S WHAT MAKES IT CONFUSING IS A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE IT'S A ONE TIME SOURCE BEING CARRIED OVER. BUT T HE ACTUAL SPEND IF IT'S NOT INCLUSIVE OF THAT, IT'S A BIG DELTA FOR THEM BECAUSE IT'S A SPECIFIC SET ASIDE OF 50K. OKAY. THANK YOU. SOMETHING ALSO TO NOTE IS THAT WE DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY ROLL OVER FUNDS FROM ONE YEAR TO THE NEXT. SO EVEN IF THE CITY TREASURER'S BUDGET WAS 120,000, THEY ONLY SPEND 60 TO CARRY THAT OVER, THEY NEED TO REQUEST IT FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND GET APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL . SO IF THEY DON'T SPEND IT, IT WILL RETURN TO FUND BALANCE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY IT GOT MY ATTENTION WHEN IT WAS. YEAH. SO THE 20. SO WHAT MAY HAPPEN AT YEAR END IN THE FALL FOR 24-25 IS WE'LL TALK TO EUGENE AND SAY, HEY, ARE YOU STILL PLANNING TO USE THAT MONEY? I THINK HE PROBABLY WILL BE PLANNING TO USE THAT MONEY THIS YEAR. AND IT'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR HIM TO DO. OKAY. SO IT'S FOR AUDITING. YEAH. SO FOR FOR AN AUDIT REVIEW. YEAH. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? MIKE, YOU MADE THE COMMENT EARLIER. THE OBSERVATION. MAYBE IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THESE DECISION PACKAGES AND AND SIMILAR ITEMS BROKEN DOWN BY DEPARTMENT. YEAH, IF THAT HELPS YOU. ON THE ELECTRONIC SIDE OF THIS, IF THERE WAS SOME WAY TO SLICE AND DICE THESE THINGS, I LIKE STARTING OUT WITH, WHAT ARE THE BIG BUDGET ITEMS? SO I'D LIKE TO SORT BY HOW MUCH IS IT. SORT BY TOP TO BOTTOM KIND OF AN AMOUNTS. YEAH. NEXT ONE IS BY DEPARTMENT I MEAN, AND THAT'S ME. THERE ARE OTHERS THAT LIKE TO DO OTHER THINGS. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THOUGHT. I GOT AN IDEA FOR MAYBE NEXT YEAR WHEN WE LAY THIS OUT. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DO THIS TABLE NOW YOU SEE IT IN THE BUDGET. THIS IS THE TABLE OF EACH OF THE DECISION PACKAGES. THAT TABLE COULD BE EXPANDED TO INCLUDE A DEPARTMENT CATEGORY. IT COULD BE EXPANDED TO INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE EVEN SOME ADDITIONAL DETAIL. BUT THEN IT COULD BE SORTED, THAT EXCEL DOCUMENT COULD BE CIRCULATED AND IT COULD BE SORTED, [01:50:05] AND IT'D ALLOW YOU TO MAYBE PACKAGE IT UP IN DIFFERENT WAYS IF, IF THAT IS HOW YOU FROM A VISUAL PERSPECTIVE, IF THAT'S MORE HELPFUL, HAPPY TO DO THAT. WE HAVE THEM BROKEN DOWN NOW INTO THOSE CATEGORIES OF THE CRITERION FOR DECISION MAKING. RIGHT. DOES THE DECISION PACKAGE SUSTAIN OR IMPROVE REVENUE TO THE CITY? THAT'S OUR FIRST CATEGORY, RIGHT? WOULD THE DECISION PACKAGE RESTORE DEPARTMENT POSITIONS AND OPERATING BUDGETS LOST DURING PRIOR FISCAL YEARS? THAT'S ANOTHER CATEGORY. WOULD THE DECISION PACKAGE BE NEEDED TO COMPLY WITH MANDATES OR FUND UNAVOIDABLE COSTS FOR CURRENT BASIC SERVICES? THAT'S ANOTHER CATEGORY. SO AND SO ON ALL THE WAY TO THE FINAL CATEGORY WHICH IS, WOULD THE DECISION PACKAGE IMPROVE ORGANIZATION EFFICIENCY OR EFFECTIVENESS? SO WE HAVE THEM IN THESE, WE HAVE BEEN KIND OF DEPARTMENT BUCKETS, WE HAVE THEM IN THESE MORE THEMATIC BUCKETS. BUT THAT'S, ONCE WE GET THIS DATA INTO AN EXCEL DOC THAT COULD BE SORTED IN WAYS THAT MIGHT BE MORE HELPFUL FOR DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW. AND IT'S THE SAME WAY WITH THE CIP. AND THE OTHER THING THAT WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL WOULD BE PARTICULARLY ON THE DECISION PACKAGES, IF THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF TEMPLATE, SOME FORMAT SO THEY'RE ALL SIMILAR. THEY HAVE SIMILAR CONTENT, MAYBE A SEPARATE COLUMN FOR DOLLARS SO THAT IT'S NOT EMBEDDED IN THE PARAGRAPH. AND YOU HAVE TO DECIPHER THINGS WHEN YOU LOOK THROUGH THESE THEY GET A LITTLE BIT CRAZY. SOMETIMES THE NUMBERS ARE BOLD, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT, SOMETIMES THEY'RE EMBEDDED, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT. SO, AND I KNOW THE HARDEST THING TO DO IS AS YOU AS YOU HAVE STAFF IN VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS TRYING TO DO THIS. TO EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT THE TEMPLATE LOOKS LIKE. JUST, WHEN WE'VE GOT DOCUMENTS THAT ARE HUNDREDS OF PAGES LONG, THE EASIER IT IS TO READ AND THE MORE TABULAR IT IS. YEAH. AND IF, AND MIKE, YOU'VE ONLY GOT ME FOR A COUPLE MORE MONTHS, SO YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT AFTER SEPTEMBER [LAUGHTER]. MEL. JUST A QUICK QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE THAT DECISION PACKAGES BY CATEGORY WITH FUNDING SOURCE? IT'S BROKEN OUT. I DON'T HAVE IT RIGHT HERE. BUT I MEANT DO YOU KNOW THAT THAT EXISTS? I DON'T RECALL SEEING THAT. BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR. AND IT'S PART OF A SEPARATE DOCUMENT THAT I GOT. LET ME SHOW IT TO YOU AFTER THE MEETING. YOU CAN SEE. YEAH, AND IT'S IN THE. IT'S IN THE, IT'S IN EXACTLY THE SAME. YEAH. AND IT'S IN THE CITY MANAGER'S MESSAGE. THAT'S THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE. THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THERE. THERE ARE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF INFORMATION, AND IF IT IS SUMMARIZED IN A, IT'S LITERALLY SUMMARIZED IN A PRESENTATION WITH, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL TEN, 20 SLIDES. THAT'S ALL I WAS SAYING. YEAH. NO. AND. IT'S A LOT. THE BOOK THAT YOU HAVE. I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE, THE FIRST YEAR, I GOT A COPY OF IT. IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN GET IT OR ANY IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS A COPY, IF YOU WANT A HARD COPY, YOU CAN GET ONE, BUT IT IS, IT MIRRORS WHAT'S ONLINE. SO IF YOU GO TO THE BUDGET, IF YOU GO TO THE BUDGET LINK, YOU WILL GET THIS IN AN ELECTRONIC PDF. YES. IS THERE A WAY I CAN GET A HARD COPY OF THE BOOK? YEAH I CAN GET YOU ONE. MAYBE THE NEXT MEETING. SURE. WELL, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS AFTER THE COUNCIL ADOPTS THE BUDGET NEXT WEEK, WE'LL PRODUCE AN ADOPTED VERSION OF THE BUDGET, WHICH WILL BE HARD COPY IF YOU'D LIKE ONE. CERTAINLY HAPPY TO GET IT TO YOU. AND LOOK, IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS A HARD COPY OF THE BOOK, WE GENERALLY PRODUCE A HARD COPY FOR ALL OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS AND ALL THE CITY COUNCIL AND. YES, SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS PREFER THE ELECTRONIC. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO OPT OUT, PLEASE TELL ME AND WE WILL NOT PRINT IT FOR YOU, BUT IN GENERAL FOR THE COMMISSION, WE PLAN TO ORDER YOU ONE. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE HAPPY IF, YOU'RE IN ANY QUESTIONS OR SO FOR FUTURE VERSIONS OF THIS. RIGHT. AND MAYBE AS A FOLLOW UP LATER IF IF THERE ARE FORMATS THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR YOU TO DIGEST THIS MATERIAL, I'M ALL EARS. MAYBE WE TALK ABOUT IT WHEN I'M BACK HERE IN APRIL OR MAY. PREPARING THE NEXT ONE. BUT ALSO IF THERE'S SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON THE BUDGET THAT YOU WANT US TO COVER IN THIS PRESENTATION, JUST FLAG THEM AND I'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE INCORPORATE THEM EITHER INTO THE SLIDES OR WE WE SPEND SOME TIME TO EXPLAIN THEM, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD IT IN SOME PEOPLE REALLY WANT US TO GO THROUGH IT IN DETAIL. OTHERS REALLY WOULD PREFER US TO JUST ROLL IT UP AND THEN GET TO THEIR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS. IT JUST RUNS THE GAMUT. DO WE WANT TO MAKE A DECISION WHAT WE WANT TO TELL COUNCIL. DO WE NOT WANT TO SEND THEM ANYTHING? THAT'S MY GUESS BECAUSE THERE'S REALLY NOTHING. SEEING AS HOW COUNCIL MEETS ON TUESDAY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO PROVIDE ANY INPUT TO THEM. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WE REALLY HAVE TIME TO WRITE LETTERS. DO WE HAVE ANY INPUT? WELL, LET'S START WITH THAT. MY PROPOSAL WOULD BE I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL THAT USING NEARLY HALF OF THE THE RESERVE FUND, THE PENSION RESERVE FUND NEEDS TO BE MORE SERIOUSLY REVIEWED. [01:55:08] AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT CAN BE CUT BY, BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND THE DEEPEST POSSIBLE CUT, BECAUSE I THINK HAVING A ONE YEAR RESERVE AFTER THIS YEAR IS REALLY PLAYING THINGS KIND OF FAST AND LOOSE. JUST TO REMEMBER, WE DO HAVE ANOTHER RESERVE ACCOUNT TOO. WE WON'T JUST HAVE A ONE YEAR RESERVE THIS IS 25% OF THAT RESERVE. I HEARD THAT IT'S A TOTAL 8 MILLION RESERVE. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER. THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER THAT'S WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN CASE THE TSUNAMI COMES AND WIPES OUT THE PIER. YEAH. AND I DON'T THINK 9 MILLION IS GOING TO COVER THE PIER, RIGHT? NO. YOU'RE RIGHT. YEAH. IT'S REALLY. I MEAN, REALLY WHAT, WE'VE NEVER USED THE ECONOMIC CONTINGENCY RESERVE IN. AT LEAST IN MY TIME HERE. AND I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T INTEND. INTEND TO. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THE PURPOSE OF THAT RESERVE IS REALLY FOR THE SCENARIO WHERE YOU HAVE A FIRE. I MEAN, IT'S THE PALISADES EXAMPLE WHERE IF THAT WERE LIKE THE CITY OF MALIBU AS AN EXAMPLE, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE REVENUE ACCRUING, BUT YOU STILL NEED TO MAKE PAYROLL FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. THAT'S WHEN YOU USE RESERVE AT THAT NATURE. THIS PENSION ACCOUNT IS REALLY MORE TARGETED FOR TO TRY TO SMOOTH OUR PENSION NEEDS. WELL, BUT WE HAVE HAD A FIRE ON THE PIER AND THEN WE DIDN'T HAVE REVENUE FROM THE PIER IN THAT INSTANCE. YEAH. NO, I MEAN THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE. I MEAN, IT COST US. THANKFULLY, WE'RE ABLE TO ABSORB THAT IMPACT, I THINK, OPERATIONALLY AND NOT CATASTROPHICALLY, BUT YEAH. ALTHOUGH YOU COULD ARGUE WE HAVEN'T FULLY RECOVERED FROM THAT FIRE. YEAH. I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T MEAN TO. YOU WERE SAYING SOMETHING. THAT WOULD BE. I WOULD MOVE THAT WE MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL. MY ONLY QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE DO THAT? IS, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN. IF YOU TAKE A MOTION, IF YOU IF YOU CAPTURE A MOTION TONIGHT, WE WILL REFLECT THAT IN BUDGET RESPONSE REPORT TWO AND GET THAT TO COUNCIL. THAT'S REALLY HOW WE DO. WE DO HAVE, OH WE'VE GOT A PUBLIC SPEAKER. THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE NEEDED TO DISCUSS. BE ABLE TO DISCUSS AND DECIDE TODAY AT THIS MEETING IS HOW DO WE POOL 3.5 FROM THE OTHER AREAS. BUT WE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE. THAT'S NOT OUR JOB. DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH. THAT'S NOT OUR JOB. THAT'S. IT'S NOT OUR JOB, BUT WE CAN GIVE IDEAS, OKAY? WE CAN POINT OUT THE PROBLEM. WE CAN COME UP WITH A COUPLE OF IDEAS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO BE VERY SPECIFIC. THE POINT IS, WE MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION. IT'S UP TO OUR CITY MANAGER, OUR FINANCE DIRECTOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL TO FIGURE OUT IF THEY EVEN WANT TO ENTERTAIN THE THE RECOMMENDATION OR NOT. OH, NO. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. ANYONE ELSE HAS ANYTHING BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENTS? YEAH, WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT. IT'S GOT A $695,000 IMPACT. SO IF WE THINK THAT'S SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH, WE MIGHT PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO THE COUNCIL. THAT SEEMS LIKE ONE OF THE LARGEST LINE ITEMS. LET'S GET THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND DISCUSS THAT, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO DO THE PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE WE GET ANY DEEPER IN DISCUSSION. RIGHT. WELL, JUST BEFORE YOUR MOTION. OKAY. SO YOU WANT TO FINISH YOUR DISCUSSION. YOU'RE FINE. I GUESS WE NEED TO FINISH. YEAH. YEAH, WE FINISH DISCUSSION. I GUESS IF YOU'RE GOING FROM THE TOP DOWN IN TERMS OF THE MAJOR IMPACTS, I THINK THAT WE OUGHT TO PERHAPS MAKE THAT A CONSIDERATION TOO. WHERE'S THE 699,000? ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE CROSSING GUARD? THE CROSSING GUARDS CROSSING? IT'S A $644,000. SO WE'LL JUST ELIMINATE THE CROSSING GUARD. THE DECISION PACKAGE THAT THEY'RE CONSIDERING IS GOING TO BE 367,000 OF THAT, EITHER TO GO OR NOT GO. SO I THINK THAT'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF MONEY. SO I MEAN, IF WE'RE SAYING WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE COULD DO TO AFFECT ANY KIND OF SAVINGS IN THE BUDGET THAT WOULD BE ON THE TOP OF THE LIST. IF WE TAKE THAT OUT, IT GIVES ALL THE DRIVERS THAT ARE BLOWING STOP SIGNS AN INCENTIVE TO SLOW DOWN. WELL, IF YOU TOOK OUT THREE, THEY'VE GOT TWO. THEY'VE GOT 12 NOW, IF THEY DON'T ADD ANY THEY'LL STILL HAVE 12. AND IF THEY IF THEY GO FORWARD WITH THIS, THEY'LL ADD 15 NEW ONES. AND IT'LL COST $367,000 A YEAR RIGHT OFF THE BAT WITHOUT ANY INFLATIONARY CONSIDERATIONS. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING JUICY TO HANG ON TO, I WOULD SAY UNLESS SOMEONE ELSE HAS ONE, WE SHOULD INCLUDE THAT. I THINK OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS MORE TO POINT OUT THE LARGER ISSUE THAN IT IS TO GET INTO THE WEEDS [02:00:06] AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FUND IT. THE $3.5 MILLION AND CUTTING THE RESERVE ALMOST IN HALF IS A BIG ISSUE. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A RESERVE, THOUGH, TO HANDLE A SITUATION LIKE THIS. IF YOU SET UP A RESERVE, YOU HAVE TO FIGURE IT'S EITHER WORTH SETTING UP AND IT MIGHT HAPPEN OR IT WON'T. AND IF IT WON'T, THEN YOU DON'T SET THE DAMN THING UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO, BUT IT IS A BIG ISSUE. AND IF INCREASED REVENUE DOESN'T COME ALONG AFTER NEXT YEAR, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ESSENTIALLY NO RESERVE, WHICH PUTS US IN A VERY PRECARIOUS POSITION. SO I WOULD THINK THE MOTION SHOULD BE MORE IN LINE OF, LOOK, GUYS, GUYS AND LADIES CITY COUNCILMAN, THIS IS A BIG ISSUE AS WE SEE IT. AND WE WOULD ADVISE SCRUBBING THE BUDGET TO SEE IF THERE ARE WAYS TO REDUCE THE TAKE FROM CALPERS RESERVE. EITHER NOW AND INTO THE FUTURE. RIGHT. I MEAN, THAT'S I MEAN, I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. IT'S THERE, IT WAS IT WAS SET UP FOR THIS PURPOSE. WE HATE USING IT FOR THIS PURPOSE. WE CAN'T USE IT FOR THIS PURPOSE INDEFINITELY. WE HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO PERHAPS TAKE MORE DRAMATIC ACTION OVER TIME TO ADDRESS THIS. IF THE REVENUES, TO YOUR POINT, DON'T COME ALONG TO OFFSET IT. WELL, IF I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY, YOU DON'T HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A ONE TIME EVENT. I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE THREE POINT, THE NEED TO USE 3.5 MILLION IS GOING TO BE A ONE TIME EVENT. DO I THINK THERE'S AN EVENT NEXT YEAR WHERE WE MIGHT USE A SMALLER AMOUNT? YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT'S STILL A POSSIBILITY. THE GOAL WOULD BE NOT TO NEED IT AT ALL COME 27-28. YEAH. AND THAT'S NOW GETTING INTO THE AREA OF UNPREDICTABILITY. YEAH. AND THAT'S WHERE TO ME, WE'RE IN THIS KIND OF VIGILANCE STAGE. RIGHT. THIS IS HEY, WE GOT IT. THANK GOODNESS WE HAVE IT. WE'RE USING IT. IT'S BUYING US TIME. THAT TIME IS PRECIOUS. WE HAVE TO ANALYZE WHAT COMES NEXT. IF REVENUES DON'T IMPROVE, THEN WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY BUDGET REDUCTIONS. IF REVENUES DO IMPROVE, WE EITHER IDENTIFY SOME OF THOSE OR NONE OF THOSE BECAUSE WE'RE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE. THAT'S WHAT THIS ACCOUNT WAS SET UP TO DO, PRECISELY THAT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER AREAS THAT YOU THINK THEY IF YOU'VE LOOKED AT THE LINE ITEMS THAT THEY CAN CUT BESIDES THE CROSSING GUARDS? WELL, I THINK I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER WOODHAM. LET THEM. LET THE COUNCIL GET INTO THOSE WEEDS. I THINK WE SHOULD JUST WE SHOULD STRESS THE CAUTION THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM USING AND GOING TO THAT EXTREME. I MEAN, MAYBE IT'S 2.5 MILLION. MAYBE IT'S 2.7 MILLION, WHATEVER IT IS. THE POINT IS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT LONGER RESERVE. IT'S IT IS TOO MUCH OF, ESPECIALLY WITH CALPERS. YOU CAN NEVER TELL WHAT THOSE CHARACTERS ARE GOING TO DO YEAR TO YEAR, AND THE ECONOMY COULD BE REALLY GOOD AND WE STILL GET STUCK. RIGHT? RIGHT. ANY. AND HOW ABOUT ON THE OTHER SIDE? DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEAS OR WHAT YOU WOULD WANT TO TELL COUNCIL? NO, NOTHING MORE THAN WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR FOR A YEAR. WE'RE OPENING UP A CAN OF WORMS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE HOMELESSNESS AND WHAT THE COST IS AGAINST THAT. SO I DON'T WANT TO OPEN UP THAT WHOLE CAN OF WORMS. BUT FROM SALARY AND OVERHEAD AND ALL THE THINGS THAT GO TOGETHER, LIKE, WHAT ARE WE SPENDING ON THE HOMELESS PROBLEM HERE? BUT I THINK, DIDN'T WE HAVE A MOTION, A MOTION ON THAT ALREADY IN A LETTER PREPARED. AND WE'RE JUST. WE HAVE AN ITEM FOR THAT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT A LITTLE LATER. SO I DON'T WANT NECESSARILY GO DOWN THAT ROAD HERE. WE'LL WE'LL COME BACK. ALL RIGHTY. WE'RE READY FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS. OKAY. WE HAVE ONE FROM JIM MUELLER. THANK YOU MIKE. I COMMEND THE CITY MANAGER FOR HIS COMMAND OF THE DETAIL AND, ORGANIZING THE CITY AND I'M REALLY IMPRESSED. BUT WHEN YOU AT THE 5/13 COUNCIL MEETING, YOU SUGGESTED THAT ON THE FINANCIAL WEBSITE THERE WAS DATA. I'M A DATA GUY. I REALLY LIKE TO DO IT. AND I NOTICED THE ANNUAL COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL REPORT FOR EACH YEAR IS ABOUT 2000 PAGES LONG, AND IT ONLY GOES THROUGH THE FISCAL YEAR OF 23-24. CORRECT. SO I'D LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE ANALYZABLE DATA BECAUSE THE, THE PUBLIC CANNOT HANDLE [02:05:05] EACH YEAR BEING TWO, 200 PAGES LONG AND BE ABLE TO MAKE ANY SENSE OUT OF IT. SO THAT COULD BE IN AN EXCEL FORMAT. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. ALSO, THE FINANCIAL TRANSPARENCY WHICH IS MORE AMENABLE TO THAT ONLY GOES THROUGH THE FISCAL YEAR 21-22. AND SO IS THAT BY INTENTION OR IS IT SPEAKS TO THAT? SO THIS IS THE ITEM THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED A COUPLE MEETINGS AGO IN THE CITY MANAGER. WE'D ALSO DISCUSSED THIS INTERNALLY. THAT WAS THROUGH A TOOL CALLED OPENGOV. AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT BEEN A PRIORITY FOR THE CITY TO MAINTAIN AND UPDATE. SO IT'S NOT THAT THAT'S ALL THAT THAT REFLECTS. IT TAKES SOME AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET OUR DATA IN THE FORMAT THAT WE CAN UPDATE IT AND USE IT. IT'S TIME CONSUMING AND IT'S NOT A CHEAP CONTRACT. AND WE BELIEVE THAT OTHER DATA THAT WE'RE PRESENTING PRESENTS OUR FINANCIAL INFORMATION IN A CLEAR ENOUGH WAY. DEFINITELY NOT THE ACFR. THAT IS NOT WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THAT DATA. THE ACFR IS PRESENTED IN THE SAME FORMAT IN EVERY SINGLE CITY, AND IT HAS TO HAVE ALL OF THE TABLES. IT HAS TO HAVE ALL OF THE DATA IN THAT FORMAT. OUR BUDGET DOCUMENT. I'M REQUESTING IS THE CITY PUT UP A WEBSITE. IT SHOULD NOT BE VERY GOOD. AND A LOT OF THE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN ABOUT THAT, THE ABILITY TO ANALYZE THE DATA. AND SO I GUESS I'M REQUESTING THE CITY PUT UP A WEBSITE WITH THE PRIOR YEAR'S DATA THAT CAN BE ANALYZED WITH A SPREADSHEET. CAN THAT BE DONE? AND IT CAN BE DONE IN A TIMELY MANNER. AND YOU CAN COME UP WITH A DUE DATE WHEN IT IS GOING TO BE DONE. I MEAN, I'LL DEFER TO THE CITY MANAGER. IT'S REALLY HIS DECISION. AGAIN, I THINK IT'S JUST THE THE, I THINK IT'S JUST WHAT THE CITY DECIDES TO PUT OUR TIME AND ENERGY INTO. IN TERMS. I'LL BE HAPPY TO DO IT. WELL, NO, IN TERMS OF THE MOST USABLE. I'D BE HAPPY TO SET IT UP FOR DATA FORMAT. SO AGAIN, OPENGOV IS ONE OF THESE TOOLS. THERE ARE OTHER TOOLS OUT THERE. I THINK WE'D BE INTERESTED IN, AGAIN, FINDING WHAT IS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE AND BEST WAY TO PUT THIS TYPE OF DATA. AND SO YOU'RE GONNA COMMIT TO DO THAT? , WE'LL COMMIT TO RESEARCHING OUR OPTIONS. YEAH. TYLER MUNIS, AND WHAT WE CAN EXPORT OUT OF TYLER MUNIS INTO A DIGESTIBLE FORMAT IS SOMEWHAT LIMITED BY WHAT THEIR PARADIGM IS. AND M UNIS IS A VERY, VERY LARGE, CLUNKY FINANCIAL SYSTEM. WHICH IS WHY YEARS AGO, WE TRIED THE I GUESS IT WAS OPENGOV. IT WAS OPENGOV OR? SO OPENG OV IS THAT IS THE DATA TRANSPARENCY TOOL, CLEARGOV IS OUR BUDGET DOCUMENT RIGHT. SO CLEARGOV IS WHAT HELPS US AUTO POPULATE THIS. OPENGOV WAS WHAT WAS PROCURED TO TRY TO GIVE YOU JUST WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING. OPENGOV CONTRACT PRICE WENT UP AND UP AND UP. AND WHAT WE STARTED TO FIND IS IT WASN'T TALKING TO MUNIS AS CLEANLY AND THE DATA WASN'T AS HELPFUL AND OR ACCURATE AS IT SHOULD BE. SO WE HAVEN'T REVISITED THAT CONTRACT IN A FEW YEARS. IT MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO CREATE A TOOL LIKE THAT. WELL, YOU CAN SEE HOW VALUABLE IT'D BE, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS HAD TO DO WITH THE ABILITY TO ANALYZE DATA. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU GAVE THE PEOPLE A 200 PAGE BOOK AND OF DATA AND TABLES, AND EXPECTED THEM TO ANALYZE IT COMPLETELY. I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE COMPUTERS NOW AND SPREADSHEETS TO DO THAT. I SIMPLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT ANYWAY ON THE HOMELESS ISSUE I THINK THAT THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE WE COULD ENSURE THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THAT PROGRAM BY UNDERSTANDING HOW MUCH IT COSTS AND HOW MUCH NEEDS TO BE FUNDED, FUNDED. AND SO WHERE IS THE DATA TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT? AND I SYMPATHIZE WITH THE COMMISSION MEMBERS. IF SOMEBODY ASKED ME TO BE ON THE COMMISSION, I DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO DO YOUR JOBS WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE THE DATA SO YOU CAN ANALYZE IT. SO THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. DO WE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION ON ANY? WELL, I RESTATE MY MOTION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE. [02:10:03] RECOMMEND THE CITY COUNCIL , THAT THEY FIND SOME WAY TO REDUCE THAT $3.2 MILLION CHARGE TO THE PENSION FUND. PENSION FUND RESERVE. PENSION FUND RESERVE. YEAH. AND I'M NOT SURE THAT I'D LIKE TO GET INTO MORE DETAIL THAN THAT. I WOULD JUST MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION. SECOND. I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE A ROLL CALL. VOTE FOR THIS ONE. CAN YOU TAKE A ROLL CALL? VOTE, PLEASE. OH, SURE. COMMISSIONER. MARIN AYE. COMMISSIONER? YES. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT JUST ONE SPECIFIC ITEM OR DO YOU WANT TO ADD ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, THE SAME THING THAT I'VE BEEN ASKING FOR FOR OVER A YEAR NOW REGARDING THE BUDGET. THIS IS JUST REGARDING WHAT MIKE PRESENTED. AND AS A NOTE TO COUNCIL, WITHOUT THE DATA, WE CANNOT REALLY VOTE. ON WHAT MOTION WOULD YOU LIKE TO. I WOULD ABSTAIN FROM IT. WELL, WE NEED TO AGAIN REQUEST THE DATA THAT WE NEED. LIKE THE GENTLEMAN SAID, WITHOUT THE DATA, WE CAN'T DO ANY ANALYSIS, AND WE'RE JUST NOT GETTING THE DATA. OKAY. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD SOMETHING TO THAT? SO. YES AND WE GET THE DATA FOR HOMELESS. WE GET THE DATA FOR CIP. WE GET THE DATA FOR THE RESERVES, THE ADDITIONAL DATA THAT WE NEED. SO WE CAN DO THE ANALYSIS. AND PROVID E. THAT'S WHAT . HOW DO YOU HOW YOU WANT TO WORD IT. DO YOU WANT TO PRESENT IT AS WITH THE LIMITED DATA OR INSIGHT INTO CATEGORIES LIKE HOMELESSNESS OR LIST THE THREE OR 4 OR 5 THINGS WE WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE WOULD HAVE LIKED TO COMMENT ON IN THIS BUDGET CYCLE, BUT DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE IN A POSITION TO DO SO BASED ON THE DATA WE HAVE. OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO FOCUS ON THE LARGER ITEMS, SUCH AS THE 3.5 MILLION SHORTFALL AND THE. THAT WAY YOU'RE STILL CALLING OUT THAT WE'RE TRYING. WE WANTED WE WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE HAVE GREATER INSIGHT OR GREATER VISIBILITY INTO, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATIONS. BUT BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE AND THE FACT THAT THE MEETING IS NEXT WEEK. THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION. MIKE, WHATEVER WE RECOMMEND RIGHT NOW, CAN YOU TAKE THAT TO COUNCIL OR YOU PREFER THAT. WE CAN TAKE IT, WE EMAIL IT TO THEM. NOTE IF YOU IF YOU DO A MOTION, IF YOU COALESCE AROUND WORDING AND A MOTION, WE WILL RECAPITULATE THAT IN THE BUDGET RESPONSE REPORT ON YOUR BEHALF. IF YOU WANTED TO DO SOMETHING MORE ELABORATE THAN THAT THROUGH A LETTER OR THE LIKE, YOU WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO ASSIGN SOMEBODY TO PREPARE IT ON YOUR BEHALF. BUT SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE WANT TO DO A MOTION SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH TIME. YEAH. AND I FULLY AGREE WITH THE MODIFICATION TO POINT OUT THAT THERE ARE OTHER AREAS THAT WE WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE EXPLORED, BUT THE INFORMATION IS THERE. I MEAN, DO YOU WANT TO FLAG THEM SPECIFICALLY? I MEAN, I KNOW THAT'S UP TO YOU. I JUST THINK THAT I KNOW YOU HAVE CONCERNS. YOU HAVE CONCERNS. AND THERE'S JUST THINGS THAT WE WE AREN'T IN A POSITION TO MAKE A COMMENT ON. SO I JUST DON'T KNOW. DO WE WANT TO SAY, HERE'S THE THREE THINGS WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BETTER DATA OR JUST SAY IN GENERAL, THERE'S SOME AREAS WELL HOW CAN WE GIVE YOU THAT? SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT I'M HEARING IS YOU'D LIKE MORE INFORMATION REGARDING HOMELESSNESS THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED YOU TO PERHAPS PROVIDE SOME SUGGESTIONS AS PART OF THE BUDGET. I'M HEARING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME ADDITIONAL HISTORICAL INFORMATION ASSOCIATED WITH CIP DATA AND PERFORMANCE THAT WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF, I SUPPOSE, BUDGET CONSIDERATION, THOSE TWO THINGS. I DIDN'T HEAR IN ANOTHER. IS THERE ANOTHER TOPIC THAT I MISSED? THERE WAS THE COST OF HOMELESSNESS. YEAH, COST OF HOMELESSNESS, THAT'S FOR SURE. IS THERE ANOTHER ONE WE'D WANT TO ADD? IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SORT OF CLAMORING FOR? I KNOW. CROSSING GUARDS AS WELL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BIG ENOUGH. IT'S STILL A PROBLEM. WELL, LIKE MIKE SAID, IT'S NOT UP TO US TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT EACH SPECIFIC ITEM AND THEN EITHER APPROVE IT OR NOT APPROVE IT. THAT'S NOT OUR JOB. IT'S MORE DIRECTIONAL, RIGHT? THE ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS TO REQUEST DATA, DO THE ANALYSIS, AND THEN MAKE OUR PRESENTATION. MAYBE WE JUST IDENTIFY THOSE TWO. I WILL SAY THIS AND THIS MAYBE ISN'T FOR TONIGHT BUT FOR NEXT YEAR. HISTORICALLY THE COMMISSION AND JERRY, AS MEL CAN SPEAK TO THIS. HISTORICALLY, THE COMMISSION HAS PROVIDED INPUT ON VARIOUS DECISION PACKAGES OR REVENUE ESTIMATES OR I MEAN, THERE HAVE BEEN SOMETIMES WHEN THE MOTION IS WE LIKE ONE THROUGH THIS. WE PLEASE EXCLUDE THIS OR EXCLUDE THAT. SO YOU CERTAINLY HAVE THAT WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW. ABSOLUTELY. IT SOUNDS LIKE TONIGHT IT WOULD [02:15:05] PERFORMANCE, HISTORIC CAPITAL PERFORMANCE. AND THE NOTION BEING WE'D LIKE TO, TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF UTILIZATION OF THE PENSION RESERVE FUND TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. YEAH. DO YOU WANT TO READ. JUST FOR YOUR OWN REFERENCE WE'VE HAD MANY DISCUSSIONS WITH STEPHANIE ABOUT THIS QUESTION OF WHAT DOES IT COST FOR US TO OPERATE OUR HOMELESS PROGRAM. I KNOW, I KNOW, YOU HAVE AND I'VE HEARD THAT AND STEPHANIE AND JUST KNOW STEPHANIE'S IN A TOUGH SPOT ON THAT TOO. AND SHE'S IN CONTACT WITH JOY ABOUT IT. I THINK THERE IS AN EFFORT TO TRY TO HELP ORGANIZE THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU. SO SHE SAID SHE WOULD COME BACK PROBABLY IN AUGUST. THAT WOULD BE HER GOAL TO COME BACK IN AUGUST AND TALK ABOUT IT MORE. BUT JUST WE HAVE AN ITEM FOR THAT TOO, SO WE CAN YEAH. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT'S OUT THERE AND WE'RE DOING WHAT WE CAN TO TRY TO GET THAT EVENTUALLY PUT TOGETHER FOR YOU. ALL RIGHTY. DO YOU WANT TO RESTATE YOUR MOTION OR RE I THINK. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA, YOU WANT TO DO IT? YEAH. HE REMEMBERS ALL THE IMPORTANT WORDS. IT SOUNDS LIKE LIMIT. I MEAN, THE THREE BUCKETS I'M HEARING IS LIMIT. LIMIT TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, THE AMOUNT OF OF FUNDS TRANSFERRED OUT OF THE PENSION RESERVE. RIGHT. THAT SEEMS TO BE ONE THEME. IDEALLY, WE WOULD HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EVALUATE HOMELESS EXPENSES, TO KNOW IF WE COULD HAVE MADE A RECOMMENDATION ON ANY CHANGES TO THAT. AND THEN I'M HEARING AND ALSO, IDEALLY, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO REVIEW ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ASSOCIATED WITH CAPITAL PROJECT FUNDING AND AND FINAL EXECUTION PERFORMANCE TO HELP GUIDE PERHAPS RECOMMENDATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH CAPITAL PROGRAM. I MEAN, ARE THOSE THE THREE BUCKETS? I THINK SO THAT WORKS. OKAY. EXACTLY. THANK YOU. AND IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY FOR STEPHANIE AND I TO SYNTHESIZE THAT IN THE BUDGET RESPONSE REPORT NUMBER TWO. I THINK THAT'D BE GREAT. AND I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. SO MARIN AS A FIRST, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND THE MOTION. OKAY. LET'S DO A ROLL. ROLL CALL PLEASE. COMMISSIONER MARIN. AYE, COMMISSIONER JESTE. AYE. COMMISSIONER. SHERBIN. AYE, COMMISSIONER. WOODHAM. AYE. COMMISSIONER SAMPLES. AYE. CHAIR ALLEN. AYE. MOTION PASSES. OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU ALL. APPRECIATE IT. AND WE'LL ENDEAVOR TO PACKAGE THIS UP FOR YOU, FOR YOU DIFFERENTLY OVER THE COMING MONTHS AND AND GET WE'LL TAKE THIS TO HEART FOR, FOR NEXT YEAR'S CONVERSATION. I THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, THE TIMING OF YOUR MEETING DIDN'T HELP AS MUCH THIS YEAR. WE MAY NEED TO RETHINK. YOU HAD THE JOINT MEETING AT THE END OF MAY. YOU HAD THIS MEETING TONIGHT, I THINK WHAT, SOME YEARS WHAT WE'VE DONE IS REPOSITION YOUR SCHEDULE TO HAVE AN EARLIER OPPORTUNITY ON THE OPERATING BUDGET AS OPPOSED TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET. AND I'M THINKING BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING TONIGHT, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FLIPPED THE SCRIPT IDEALLY, IF YOU COULD HAVE WE COULD HAVE HAD MORE OF A CONVERSATION YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO DO. WE SHOULD HAVE MORE FEEDBACK BEFORE THE COUNCIL. WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE BUDGET BEFORE THE COUNCIL SO THAT WE COULD HAVE GIVEN YOU INPUT THAT I WISH I COULD, I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU THAT OPPORTUNITY, BUT I, I WON'T BE ABLE TO PROMISE THAT IN THE FUTURE. BUT I CERTAINLY CAN ENDEAVOR FOR US TO LOOK AT THE CALENDAR NEXT YEAR TO GIVE YOU AN EARLIER BITE AT THIS. I GUESS THAT'S THAT'S ONE WE NEED TO DO SPECIAL MEETINGS. THAT'S WHAT SPECIAL MEETINGS ARE FOR SO THAT WE CAN CATCH UP. YEAH, I THINK SO. SO LET'S LOOK AT THAT FOR THE CALENDAR NEXT YEAR AND GIVE YOU A LITTLE MORE OPPORTUNITY. IN PAST YEARS WE'VE WE'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT AHEAD OF TIME SO THAT WE COULD GET INFORMATION TO CITY COUNCIL AND THEY CAN REVIEW IT. SO YEAH. THIS ONE DIDN'T SEQUENCE QUITE AS WELL, JUST NATURALLY ON THE CALENDAR. SO I THINK WE'VE GOT TO WE GOT TO FOCUS ON A SPECIAL SCHEDULE. SO YOU GOT ONE MORE TIME. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. YOU'VE BEEN WITH US FOR TWO HOURS AND 20 MINUTES TALKING. BUT ALSO THANK YOU FOR THE BUDGET AND ALL THAT. IT'S NO EASY ENDEAVOR. SO THANK YOU. WELL, LISTEN, IT'S A IT'S A COMPLICATED BUDGET. ALWAYS. WE DON'T WANT YOUR JOB. [LAUGHTER] THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WORK. IT'S MUCH APPRECIATED. ALL RIGHT, WELL, I'LL LEAVE YOU TO IT. GOOD NIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHTY. GOING BACK TO AGENDA, WE COULD GO BACK TO ITEM I.1. SO WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO HOMELESSNESS FUNDING AND ACCOUNTABILITY. SORRY. JUST JUST ONE MINUTE. I'LL ASK AARON TO PUT MY SCREEN BACK UP BECAUSE I HAVE SOME SLIDES TO SHOW IN THE BACKGROUND FOR THESE OTHER ITEMS, JUST TO KIND OF HELP OUR DISCUSSION. SO PRESENT AND I WILL. SO HERE WE ARE. AND I JUST PUT A NOTE ON HERE THAT I'VE INCLUDED BOTH AS A BLUE FOLDER AND IN THIS PRESENTATION I'LL PULL IT UP THE TEMPLATE THAT YOU SHARED. CHAIR ALLEN. AND THEN JUST A NOTE ON HERE THAT AS YOU DISCUSSED, I WAS GOING TO ATTEMPT TO FOLLOW UP IN AUGUST. [02:20:01] SO WITH THAT, I'LL PULL THIS UP AND I WILL TURN THIS OVER TO YOU FOR WHAT YOU HAD PLANNED TO DISCUSS ON IT. SO LAST TIME WHEN WE SPOKE ABOUT THE HOMELESSNESS STEPHANIE SUGGESTED THAT SHE WAS GOING TO MAKE A TEMPLATE TO GIVE INFORMATION OF WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WE WOULD NEED. SO I THOUGHT I WOULD HELP HER. AND I CREATED THIS TEMPLATE SO SHE CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO START WITH. YOU ALREADY HAVE THE GRANT MONEY RECEIVED. SO YOU HAVE THOSE NUMBERS THAT YOU CAN PLUG IN. SO THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE REALLY YOU DON'T HAVE YET IS WHERE WHO THAT MONEY WENT TO AND HOW MUCH. THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS SPREADSHEET IS ASKING FOR. SURE. SO I'M HAPPY TO HEAR ALL OF THE COMMISSION'S FEEDBACK ON THIS, ON THIS AS A TEMPLATE. AND IF THIS KIND OF SETUP IS GOING TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IT IS TRUE THAT, YES, WE DO HAVE ALL THIS INFORMATION. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK ON THIS BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, BEEN A LITTLE BUSY WITH THE BUDGET. I GUESS WHEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS, I WAS THINKING AT A HIGHER LEVEL ESPECIALLY GOING DOWN TO THE VENDOR DETAIL. THAT'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE TIME CONSUMING THAN STARTING WITH KIND OF AN UMBRELLA OF WHAT THE CITY YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CITY SPENDS, I THINK. HOW MANY VENDORS DO WE HAVE? IT'S EVEN BEYOND. I GUESS IT'S NOT JUST VENDORS. I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS A HOMELESS HOUSING NAVIGATOR AND HOMELESS HOUSING SUPERVISOR AND MENTAL HEALTH CLINICIAN. YEAH, IT'S NOT THAT MANY VENDORS. I GUESS WHAT I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN FROM THIS COMMISSION IS IF THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL AND, YOU KNOW, THE VENDORS AND WHAT WE'RE PAYING EACH VENDOR IS WHAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN OR YOU'RE INTERESTED IN KIND OF OVERALL WHAT WE ARE SPENDING. I THINK MAYBE KNOWING WHAT WE'RE SPENDING BY CATEGORY AND THEN IF VENDORS IS LIKE 90% OF IT, THEN WE'D PROBABLY WANT TO DIG DEEPER INTO IT, INTO EACH ONE OF THEM. I'M JUST TRYING AGAIN, WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE NUMBERS BUCKET INTO, I DON'T. IT'S HARD TO SAY. WHO IS THIS MONEY GOING TO? SURE. THAT IS, WE DEFINITELY HAVE THAT INFORMATION. I'M HAPPY TO SHARE IT. I GUESS WHAT MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE COMMISSION WAS LOOKING FOR IS. WHAT THE CITY IS SPENDING ON HOMELESSNESS, AS YOU JUST SAID. COMMISSIONER MARIN IN WHAT CATEGORY. YEAH, RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHAT I HAD IN MIND. WE DO HAVE ALL THE VENDOR INFORMATION BECAUSE IT'S ALL THERE. WE CAN FILL THAT IN. IT'S JUST IT'S MORE TIME CONSUMING AND IT'S AT A VERY, VERY DETAILED LEVEL VERSUS, I GUESS, MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE COMMISSION WAS LOOKING FOR, WHICH IS WHAT IS THE CITY SPENDING. SO WHAT WE DISCUSSED LAST TIME WAS BECAUSE THIS WAS SO COMPLICATED TO STAFF, WE WERE DOING BABY STEPS. SO IS STEP ONE OR IS THIS THE WHOLE THING? STEP ONE WOULD BE OKAY BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID THAT WAS THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE MONEY IS GOING TO THE VENDORS, SUCH AS PEOPLE WHO BUILD SHELTERS OR SO. THE MAJORITY OF THAT IS GRANT FUNDED IS WHAT WE HAVE SAID. I'M SORRY. THE MAJORITY OF THE MONEY COMES FROM GRANTS IS WHAT WE HAVE SAID, AND THAT IS. NOW WHERE IT'S GOING. SURE. SO AGAIN, WE CAN PROVIDE THAT. I DO NOT KNOW. WHAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT OUR YOU SAID MAJORITY OF THE MONEY IS GOING TO THE VENDORS. I DO NOT RECALL. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE. BUT IT MAY BE TRUE. SO THAT I JUST DON'T RECALL. I DO NOT RECALL ADDRESSING WHO THE MONEY IS GOING TO. AND AGAIN, IF THIS IS WHAT THE COMMISSION IS LOOKING FOR, THEN THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION IS LOOKING FOR. AND TO THE EXTENT THAT IS PRACTICABLE, I WILL USE THIS AND I'M HAPPY TO DO IT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING. TO SIMPLIFY IT A LITTLE BIT, LOOKING AT IT FROM AN ACCOUNTING STANDPOINT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SOURCE AND APPLICATION OF FUNDS AT A HIGH LEVEL, AND THEN THE ABILITY TO BREAK DOWN THE CATEGORIES, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BUILD THE CATEGORIES TO GET THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO, BUT THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL IS TOO GRANULAR FOR ME PERSONALLY. I WANT TO SEE JUST A VERY BASIC SOURCE AND APPLICATION OF FUNDS AND SOME CATEGORIES, AND START WITH THAT. AND IF THERE'S AN ISSUE ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE, HERE'S A CATEGORY OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY, PSYCHOLOGICAL SERVICES. AND WE SAY, OH MY GOSH, HOW CAN WE BE SPENDING SO MUCH ON PSYCHOLOGICAL SERVICES? [02:25:01] THEN BAM, GET STAFF TO GET INVOLVED. WHO ARE THE WHO'S GETTING THE MONEY? WHO ARE THE DA DA DA DA DA DA? BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK WE WANT TO LOOK AT A HIGHER LEVEL OF OF ANALYSIS. YEAH. PERSONALLY THE NUMBERS DICTATE WHERE WE SHOULD DIG. THERE YOU GO. AND THEN WE CAN CERTAINLY. THEN WE CAN GET TOGETHER AND GET GET TO THE BETTER LEVEL IF IT'S WARRANTED. I MEAN, I DON'T CARE WHO YOUR PSYCHOLOGISTS ARE, I'M. EXCUSE ME, BUT BUT UNLESS THAT BECOMES AN ISSUE. YEAH. AND THERE ARE TWO THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF FUNDS WE WANT TO BE LOOKING AT. ONE IS CAPITAL. SETTING THIS THING UP AND THE OTHER IS ANNUAL OPERATIONS. SO MY THOUGHT WAS, LOOK AT THOSE TWO AND LOOK AT THE AMOUNT SPENT PER YEAR FOR EACH OF THOSE ACTIVITIES. THAT GIVES US AN IDEA GOING FORWARD. AND THE CAPITAL. AS I UNDERSTAND IT RIGHT NOW, WE'RE GETTING MOST OF THAT HANDLED BY GRANTS. 100%? YES, THAT'D BE GREAT TO KNOW, BUT WE STILL NEED TO IDENTIFY THAT 100%. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE CITY STAFF THAT'S ASSIGNED TO SOMETHING THAT'S INTERNAL BUDGET STUFF. SO THAT WE NEED TO I GUESS I'LL JUST SAY THE CAPITAL PROJECTS FOR THE PALLET SHELTER, WHICH IS THE ONLY CAPITAL, THE CONSTRUCTION IS 100% GRANT FUNDED. OKAY. SO AGAIN, THAT'S THE POINT. WE CAN SEPARATE THAT. SO THE FACILITY ITSELF IS A CAPITAL COST. WE NEED TO KNOW THAT EVEN IF IT'S FUNDED 100% BY GRANTS, WE NEED TO KNOW THAT BECAUSE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, IT MIGHT NOT BE FUNDED BY GRANTS, BUT THEN THERE'S AN ANNUAL OPERATING COST. SO WE NEED TO SEE BOTH OF THOSE SEPARATELY. YEAH. AND THAT'S THE THOUSAND FOOT SURVEY THAT WE, THAT I THINK I'M MORE INTERESTED IN SEEING IN THIS. I'M NOT INTERESTED INITIALLY IN SEEING BY VENDOR, BUT I JUST WANT TO SEE THE TOTAL. HOW MUCH ARE WE SPENDING. WELL, THAT AND HOW MUCH DOES THAT CHANGE OVER TIME? WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS LAST TIME AND WE SAID VENDOR WAS BECAUSE IT WAS SO COMPLICATED TO GET TO THAT BIG NUMBER THAT WE SAID, OKAY, LET'S JUST DO WHAT WE CAN AND PROVIDING NUMBERS FOR VENDORS. THAT'S THE EASIEST PART BECAUSE THAT'S EASY. THAT'S WHY BECAUSE THAT'S THAT'S A SIMPLE ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS LOOK AT A PO. SO THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT THE EASIEST PART. THE EASIEST PART IS BY LINE ITEM. AND THEN YOU KNOW WE CAN BREAK DOWN IN MORE DETAIL FROM THERE. BUT I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING GENERALLY, THAT'S ALSO WHAT I HAD IN MIND. AND AGAIN, IT REQUIRES SOME INFORMATION. IT REQUIRES MAKING SOME ASSUMPTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WILL DEFINITELY CLARIFY, BUT WE CAN. THIS IS DEFINITELY INFORMATION WE CAN PROVIDE. IT'S NOT DIFFICULT. ONE OF THE COMPLICATED THINGS ON THE OPERATIONAL ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET IS TIME SPENT BY STAFF. EXACTLY. SO. IT'S ONE THING TO LOOK AT A VENDOR OR A CONTRACT THAT'S SPENT, BUT ANOTHER THING TO LOOK AT, HOW MUCH TIME IS SPENT, HOW MUCH TIME IS SPECIFICALLY ALLOCATED AND HOW MUCH TIME IS PERIPHERALLY ALLOCATED TO THIS. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE DIFFICULT THING IS THE ASSUMPTION. YEAH. YEAH. AND AGAIN THIS IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE THE CITY MANAGER MENTIONED. I'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. WE'VE MENTIONED IT IN OUR DEPARTMENT MEETINGS WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND MAKE SOME GOOD ESTIMATES, SOME INFORMED ESTIMATES. AND, YOU KNOW, THESE THESE MAY CHANGE YEAR OVER YEAR, RIGHT? BUT YES. SO WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO SPEND TIME TO GIVE YOU A GOOD ESTIMATE THAT IS GOING TO REFLECT WELL THE RESOURCES THE CITY IS PUTTING TOWARDS IT. SO WHAT ARE THE SOME OF THE CATEGORIES OR LINE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? MAYBE THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THE TEMPLATE SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE. AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE, I WAS NOT HERE IN THE LAST MEETING, BUT I MEAN, I THINK VENDORS IS GREAT, BUT I THINK THERE'S LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH LIKE OVERHEAD. I MEAN, THERE'S SPECIFIC BODIES IN THE CITY ATTORNEY OFFICE, THE NAVIGATOR, THE HOMELESS SUPERVISOR, AND THEN MENTAL HEALTH CLINICIAN THAT MIGHT BE SPLIT. SO AGAIN, MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT AMOUNT OF TIME, POLICE AND FIRE, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEIR TIME ARE THEY BOTH HAVING TO RESPOND TO HOMELESS CALLS? THERE'S THE PALLET SHELTERS COST AND THEN THE THE ANNUAL BUDGET TO SUPPORT IT. TRYING TO THINK IF THERE'S ANYTHING I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S LIKE I DON'T THINK IT OR SO COMMISSIONER MARIN, PART OF THAT DISCUSSION WAS THERE ARE SOME PERSONNEL IN VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS THAT YOU CAN SAY THEY'RE ASSIGNED TO THE PALLET SHELTERS, OR THEY'RE ASSIGNED TO MAINTENANCE FOR A DAY A WEEK. AND YOU CAN. 10% OF THEIR TIME IS ALLOCATED. TO SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFY THAT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS, LIKE JUST FIRE RESPONSES FOR PARAMEDICS. YOU CAN'T PUT A NUMBER ON THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T. IT'S NOT THAT THERE'S AN ENGINE COMPANY OR A RESCUE THAT'S ASSIGNED TO THE PALLET SHELTERS. IT'S JUST PART OF THEIR DUTY. BUT OR EVEN IF IT'S NOT PALLET SHELTERS, IT'S A HOMELESS PERSON ON THE STREET. SO IT'S 40% OF THEIR CALLS, EMERGENCY CALLS FOR THAT, OR IS THAT AN ASSUMPTION THAT CAN BE MADE? OR I'M ASKING I DON'T KNOW. SO I THINK CERTAINLY WHERE I'M AT IS THAT NUMBER BECOMES PRETTY RANDOM, [02:30:04] ESPECIALLY FOR THINGS LIKE POLICE OR FIRE RESPONSES, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ALL OVER THE CITY. LET'S START OUT WITH FOCUSING ON THE HOMELESS SHELTER ORGANIZATION, WHAT WE'RE DOING THERE AND THE THINGS THAT CAN BE REASONABLY IDENTIFIED. SO IF WE'VE GOT SOMEONE FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT'S ASSIGNED THERE ONE DAY A WEEK, THEN WE CAN PUT A NUMBER ON THAT. SOMEONE FROM PUBLIC WORKS OR SEVERAL PEOPLE WHERE THEY'VE GOT RECURRING MAINTENANCE THAT THEY'RE DOING. BUT THE OTHER SOFTER COSTS THAT ARE JUST, JUST RANDOM DRAW UP LIKE POLICE AND FIRE RESPONSES, UNLESS IT GETS TO A POINT WHERE THERE HAS TO BE A COP THERE ALL DAY, EVERY DAY, OR A FIRE TRUCK THERE EVERY DAY. LET'S JUST LEAVE THAT OUT AND STICK WITH THE HARD NUMBERS THAT WE CAN IDENTIFY. SO PERSONNEL? YEAH. SO THAT'S A CATEGORY. DO YOU WANT THAT TO BE DIVIDED INTO SUBCATEGORIES SUCH AS POLICE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. IF IT'S KNOWABLE. YEAH. YEAH. SO I GUESS WHAT I WOULD FORESEE IS PERSONNEL. WE COULD DO IT BY DEPARTMENT. WE CAN INCLUDE A NUMBER OF FTE. AND THEN JUST IF IT'S 100% DEDICATED OR IF IT'S A PERCENTAGE AND INCLUDE NOTES ON WHAT THAT'S FOR. SO THAT WOULD BE PERSONNEL. AND THEN I JUST DO OTHER OPERATING COSTS. SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE CONTRACTS THAT WOULD INCLUDE MAINTENANCE. UTILITIES. UTILITIES. EXACTLY. YES. SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE BASICALLY OTHER OPERATING NON PERSONNEL, NON-CAPITAL COSTS. AND THEN WE'D HAVE CAPITAL COSTS AND WE COULD BREAK THOSE DOWN BY PROJECT. THERE REALLY IS ONLY ONE PROJECT WHICH IS BUILDING THE PALLET SHELTER. BUT WE CAN DESCRIBE THAT. AND THEN TO YOUR POINT, THE SOURCES AND USES OF FUNDS, WE JUST SAY WHAT, WHAT FUNDING SOURCE BELONGS TO THOSE. THAT'S GREAT. EXCELLENT. FOR THE CONTRACTS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THIS TOP OF YOUR HEAD. HOW MANY DIFFERENT CONTRACTS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? ARE THEY? I THINK THERE'S A HANDFUL. RIGHT. YEAH. IT'S NOT MANY. IT'S. YEAH, IT'S NOT MANY. IT'S. SO CAN I SEE THEM. SO INSTEAD OF JUST LIKE THE PERSONNEL YOU'RE GOING TO DO A SUB CATEGORY. CAN YOU ALSO DO THAT FOR EACH OF THESE CONTRACTS. SURE. I REALLY WANT TO SEE WHERE THIS MONEY. WHO IS IT GOING TO? WHAT COMPANY IS IT GOING TO? BECAUSE THERE'S A NOW THERE'S A HOMELESS INDUSTRY MAKING MONEY OFF OF TAXPAYER MONEY BECAUSE IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY. IT'S A IT'S $1 BILLION, YOU KNOW, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS JUST IN CALIFORNIA. SO I. IT'S NOT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN REDONDO BEACH, I CAN CONFIDENTLY STATE THAT [LAUGHTER]. THE REASON I'M SAYING IS THAT BECAUSE THERE IS A HOMELESS INDUSTRY NOW THAT JUST GOT CREATED, AND I WANT TO SEE WHO THIS MONEY IS GOING TO. THAT'S THAT'S ALL. AND THAT WAS THE ONLY PART THAT I WAS FOCUSING ON. YEAH. NO THAT'S FINE. BUT. IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART. I MEAN IT'S BUT I THINK IT'S IF WE GET THE HOLISTIC PICTURE AGAIN FROM OVERHEAD ALLOCATION OF TIME. AND TO ME THAT'S EASIER TO GATHER BECAUSE IT'S ALL ON PAPER. SURE. AND ESPECIALLY PERSONNEL STAFF, THE EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, WHO HAS WHICH EMPLOYEE WORKING, HOW MANY HOURS ON WHAT? YEAH. SO THAT WAS THE LOGIC BEHIND IT. OKAY. YEAH I THINK THAT'S I THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY FAIRLY CLEAR. AND I WILL OPTIMISTICALLY SAY I THINK AUGUST SOUNDS GOOD. AUGUST. OKAY. SO WE'LL BRING THIS BACK. NOT NEXT MONTH BUT IN AUGUST. YES. BY NEXT THURSDAY. RIGHT. [LAUGHTER] YEAH. ALL RIGHTY. WELL, SHE'S NOT GOING TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO. SO WE'RE NOT. SCHEDULE'S CLEAR ALL THIS TIME. ALL RIGHT. NEXT ITEM. CAN WE GO ON TO THE NEXT ITEM OR DO WE NEED TO DO ANYTHING ELSE. WE NEED TO RECEIVE AND FILE THIS. NO. BECAUSE THEN WE WANT TO BRING IT BACK. SO IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE FORMAT OF YOUR REPORT YOU CAN SAY A MOTION TO INCLUDE CATEGORIES VENDOR NO. OR WE JUST WANT TO BRING THIS BACK AS AN ITEM. OH YOU CAN YOU CAN HAVE A MOTION TO BRING IT BACK IN AUGUST TO BRING IT BACK IN AUGUST. ANYONE SECOND. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TEMPLATE. WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE THE HOMELESS DISCUSSION. YEAH. IN AUGUST. IN AUGUST. WITH THE TEMPLATE. YEAH. OKAY. GREAT. SO SOMETHING ON A TEMPLATE, NOT AN. OKAY. YES. SO, SAMPLES, DID YOU HAVE THE FIRST MOTION? OF COURSE. OKAY. SECOND. SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO THIS IS THE SECOND ITEM, CHAIR ALLEN THAT YOU'D ASK US TO INCLUDE ON THE AGENDA. I DON'T KNOW IF THE GENTLEMAN'S COMMENTS EARLIER ADDRESSED SOME OF THIS. SO THE BUDGET WEBSITE I WAS HOPING HE WAS GOING TO BE HERE. THIS IS J.2 BECAUSE I WANTED TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND AND LOOK WHAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR BECAUSE HE'S A HE'S A CUSTOMER, [02:35:09] RIGHT? TO THE CITY. SO IF HE HAS A CONCERN I JUST WANTED SOMEONE TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE, HE'S TAKEN CARE OF, BUT HE'S NOT HERE ANYMORE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO BRING BACK AT A LATER TIME AFTER YOU AND MIKE WERE GOING TO LOOK AT THE WEBSITE. SO WE CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT. I DID JUST PUT A FEW SLIDES ON HERE AND, YOU KNOW, HAVING NOT A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT HE'S LOOKING FOR JUST TO SAY YOU CAN'T GET TO OUR WEBSITE. IT'S REDONDO.ORG/BUDGET. CURRENTLY THE DOCUMENTS TO LOOK AT ARE OUR CURRENT AND HISTORICAL BUDGET AND CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM DOCUMENTS. THESE. I WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT WAS THAT HE WAS LOOKING, BUT HE'S NOT HERE. SURE. SO. BUT I JUST WANTED TO SHARE WHAT THESE ARE. MAYBE IF HE LISTENS, HE CAN LOOK BACK AT THE SLIDES WHICH WILL UPLOAD TO THE SITE. AND I JUST WANTED TO INCLUDE HERE BECAUSE OUR MAIN DOCUMENT IS OBVIOUSLY OUR BUDGET, RIGHT, TO SHOW OUR BUDGET INFORMATION TO JUST KIND OF GO OVER HOW IT'S SET UP. AND AS YOU POINTED OUT, AS A NEWCOMER TO THE BUDGET, AND IT'S A 350 PAGE DOCUMENT WHERE YOU MIGHT WANT TO GO SO THAT IT HAS AN OVERVIEW. THIS CONTAINS MIKE'S MESSAGE, WHICH IS THE PROBABLY THE BEST INTRODUCTION TO THE BUDGET. AND IF YOU ONLY READ THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF INFORMATION. WE THEN HAVE FINANCIAL SUMMARIES BY TYPE AT A CITYWIDE LEVEL. AND IN OUR DEPARTMENTS THESE ARE LISTED AS BELOW. AND THEN IT'S JUST IN DIGITAL AND PDF FORMAT. SO WE'LL FOLLOW UP ON THE OTHER DATA TRANSFER DATA TRANSPARENCY PORTAL ISSUES. AS DISCUSSED, BUT THIS IS JUST A VERY HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW OF WHAT'S ON HERE. ANOTHER IDEA THAT I'VE HAD AND THAT OTHER CITIES DO IS THEY PREPARE A BUDGET SNAPSHOT. I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THESE. BUT IT'S KIND OF A NICE, A NICE LOOKING DOCUMENT, AN ATTRACTIVE DOCUMENT, AND JUST INCLUDES REALLY HIGH LEVEL NUMBERS. SO IT'LL TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, THE TOTAL GENERAL FUND APPROPRIATIONS ARE 123 MILLION. THERE ARE 458 FULL TIME STAFF. THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET. WELL, THE. YEAH, THE TOTAL CITY BUDGET. WHICH NUMBER IS ESCAPING ME RIGHT NOW IS X DOLLARS. AND MAYBE IT INCLUDES SOME, YOU KNOW, HIGH LEVEL GOALS FOR THAT DEPARTMENT'S BUDGET. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SOME CITIES DO TO PROVIDE A SNAPSHOT OF THE BUDGET. THAT IF SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT TO OPEN THE DOCUMENT, GIVES THEM AN IDEA AND MAYBE THEY CAN DIG DEEPER. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO THANK YOU. THE ONLY REASON I, HAD THIS ON AGAIN ON THE AGENDA IS BECAUSE THE GENTLEMAN HAD A CONCERN. BUT HE'S NOT HERE. AND HE ALREADY SPOKE WITH MIKE. SO HIS UNDERSTANDING IS THAT STAFF'S GOING TO WORK ON THIS. SHOULD WE BRING THIS BACK OR SHOULD WE CLOSE THIS ITEM? OH, I CAN ADD JUST ONE MORE POINT. IF YOU WERE TO JUST GO TO THE REDONDO WEBSITE. IT'S SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE TO SAY THE BUDGET. AND I KNOW NO, I'M JUST SAYING AS A COMMENT. I KNOW, BUT HE WAS ALREADY IN THERE AND HE HAD A VERY SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT A SPECIFIC FILE. SO SHOULD WE BRING THIS ITEM BACK OR SHOULD WE JUST FILE, ACCEPT AND FILE THIS ITEM? DO WE WANT TO. DO WE CARE TO LOOK AT THE WEBSITE ITEM? WELL HE MADE A COMMENT A PUBLIC COMMENT. AND GENERALLY WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO RESPOND TO THAT AT ALL. YES, BUT I'D LIKE TO RESPOND BECAUSE HE'S A CUSTOMER. WELL, BUT WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO AND WHAT THE THE PROTOCOL IS MAYBE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. RIGHT. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING YOU. DO YOU GUYS WANT TO CUT IT OFF? CUT IT OFF? WE DON'T HAVE IT. WE DON'T HAVE. WE HAVE A MOTION. WE DON'T HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO DEAL WITH THE DISCUSSION. WE CAN DO THAT IF WE LIKE. RIGHT. NO, WE DO NOT HAVE AN OBLIGATION. BUT HE'S A CUSTOMER, AND I'D LIKE TO TREAT CUSTOMERS NICELY. I WOULD ALSO JUST SAY HE'S WELCOME TO CALL THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND ASK US ABOUT THE BUDGET. WE WOULD LOVE TO TELL HIM MORE ABOUT IT. ABSOLUTELY. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ACCEPT AND FILE? RECEIVE AND FILE . OKAY. SO WHO WHO MOTIONED? YOU MOTIONED, YOU SECOND? YEAH. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL RIGHTY. ITEM J.3. I WANTED TO HAVE THIS ON THE AGENDA. SO WE DO NOT FORGET AND SET SOME DATES. SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON THIS COMMISSION, WHICH HAS BEEN WELL OVER A YEAR, WE HAVE NEVER HAD AN AUDITOR TO COME AND PRESENT FOR US. AND I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND IF DO WE HAVE AN INTERNAL AUDITOR AND DO WE HAVE AN EXTERNAL AUDITOR, [02:40:03] AND WHEN DO THEY AUDIT, AND WHEN CAN IT BE PRESENTED. SURE. THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION AND I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT IT UP. WE HAVE WE HAVE EXTERNAL AUDITORS. THEY ARE CLIFTONLARSONALLEN. THEY PRESENT TO THIS COMMISSION ANNUALLY WHEN WE HAVE COMPLETED OUR AUDIT. THE REASON YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THEM IS BECAUSE OUR AUDIT IS LATE THIS YEAR. OUR AUDIT IS LATE THIS YEAR BECAUSE WE HAVE N EW AUDITORS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN SEVEN YEARS. AND BECAUSE THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT IS DOWN FIVE STAFF MEMBERS. SO WE ARE WE HAVE A PROPOSED DATE OF COMPLETION, WHICH IS JUNE 30TH. WE ARE VERY, VERY EXCITED. IT CANNOT COME FAST ENOUGH. SO AT THAT TIME, THE AUDITOR WILL COME AND PRESENT I THINK THEY'VE USUALLY PRESENTED VIRTUALLY, BUT THEY WILL ALWAYS COME TO PRESENT TO THIS COMMISSION BEFORE THE THE ACFR GOES TO COUNCIL, SO THEY WILL PRESENT IT TO YOU. THEY WILL RESPOND TO YOUR QUESTIONS, AND THEY MAKE A PRESENTATION TO THE AUDIT COMMISSION AS WELL. SO THAT'S OUR EXTERNAL AUDIT. WHEN YOU SAY AUDIT COMMISSION, WHO IS THE AUDIT? SO THE AUDIT COMMISSION, IT IS MADE UP OF I BELIEVE, I ALWAYS GET THIS WRONG. IT'S ONE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, THE CITY TREASURER, THE CITY CLERK. OH OKAY. SO IT'S IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC COMMITTEE. IT'S VERY DIFFERENT THAN OTHER AUDIT COMMISSIONS I'VE SEEN. BUT THEIR PURPOSE IS TO MEET ANNUALLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF REVIEWING THE AUDIT. OKAY. SO IT'S ALMOST KIND OF LIKE A SUBCOMMITTEE OF IT'S NOT THOUGH, BECAUSE IT'S ONLY ONE COUNCIL MEMBER. SO THEY PROBABLY HAVE NOT MET TO REVIEW BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T OKAY. NOW IT MAKES SENSE. OKAY. SO YEAH, WE'VE JUST GOTTEN THIS DATE. SO WHEN WE HAVE, WE SHOULD HAVE A DRAFT OF OUR FINANCIALS SOON. BUT ONCE WE'RE MORE FIRM ON THE DATE WE WILL SCHEDULE THEM TO MEET WITH THIS COMMISSION. SO SHOULD THEY MEET WITH US FIRST AND THEN WITH THE OTHER. I BELIEVE THEY DO. I BELIEVE THEY DO. THEY MAY MEET WITH YOU IN THE AUDIT COMMISSION, KIND OF SIMULTANEOUSLY, BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING, WHICH IS COMING AND PRESENTING THE CITY'S AUDIT INFORMATION FOR YOU. GENERALLY, THEY WILL MEET WITH BOTH OF THE COMMISSIONERS BEFORE THEY PRESENT TO CITY COUNCIL . OKAY. WELL, LET'S BE IN. WE'RE ALREADY JUNE. SO WHAT, LIKE JULY? JULY. OKAY, SO I'M FORGETTING WHAT DATE THAT MEETING IS. YES. OH, OKAY. I WAS RIGHT ON. SO IT'LL BE ON THE NEXT ALRIGHTY. I EXPECT IT TO BE. YES. SO CAN WE ANYONE WANTS TO MOTION TO HAVE THIS ON THE NEXT AGENDA, OR DO WE NEED TO DO THAT? WE DON'T HAVE TO. WE'LL BRING IT UP. ALRIGHTY. SO WE'RE ON ITEM NUMBER K. DO YOU WANT ME TO JUST ANSWER ON THE INTERNAL AUDITS AS WELL? OH, SURE. SO WE DON'T HAVE AN INTERNAL AUDITOR CONTINUOUSLY ENGAGED. HOWEVER THE CITY TREASURER AND CITY CLERK HAVE IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE CHARTER TO RECOMMEND INTERNAL AUDITS. IN THE PAST, WE'VE USED MOSS ADAMS AS AN AUDIT FIRM. THERE ARE MANY INTERNAL AUDIT FIRMS OUT THERE. I EXPECT IF WE DID THIS, WE'D DO SOME KIND OF COMPETITIVE PROCESS OR AT LEAST GET A FEW QUOTES. THE CHARTER JUST SAYS REGULAR AUDITS AND LIMITS TO AN AMOUNT THAT IS NOT, YOU KNOW OVERWHELMINGLY TIME CONSUMING FOR STAFF. SO WE DON'T HAVE SOMEONE SPECIFICALLY ON STAFF FOR THE CITY. HOWEVER, AS THE CITY MANAGER POINTED OUT, WE HAVE FUNDS FOR IT IN THE CITY TREASURER'S BUDGET. SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THEIR THEIR RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. AND THEY DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CHARTER SAYS. ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE ANNUAL? DOES THE CHARTER SAYS ANYTHING? I BELIEVE THEY JUST SAY REGULARLY. OKAY. REGULAR AUDITS. YES. OKAY. SO IT'S PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR THE TREASURER. OR THE CLERK. YOU COULD ADDRESS IT TO EITHER OF THEM. ALRIGHTY. WE'RE ON ITEM K. COMMISSION MEMBER ITEMS AND FUTURE COMMISSION AGENDA TOPICS. [K. COMMISSION MEMBER ITEMS AND FUTURE COMMISSION AGENDA TOPICS] ANYONE HAS ANY. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR COMMISSIONER WOODHAM. YOU ARE PART OF THAT BOND COUNCIL COMMITTEE, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT IT'S CALLED? I FORGET WHAT IT'S CALLED. HAVE YOU. DO YOU HAVE ANY UPDATES ON THAT AT ALL? WELL, WE GOT TOGETHER AND CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS AND SELECTED A FIRM TO DO THE WORK. I. HAS THERE BEEN ANYTHING DONE SINCE THEN? NOT ANYTHING REALLY SUBSTANTIVE. SO WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IS DOING INTERVIEWS FOR THE PROGRAM COORDINATOR OR OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE THAT IS GOING TO KIND OF HELP THE CITY PLAN AND MANAGE THINGS ON THE CONSTRUCTION SIDE. SO IN DISCUSSION WITH OUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR WE'VE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH HIM TO TALK ABOUT DOING A COMPETITIVE OR NEGOTIATED [02:45:04] SALE. WE HAD ANOTHER MEETING TO TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL INTEREST RATE OPTIONS FOR HOW WE'D WANT TO KIND OF PHASE THE SCHEDULE TO PHASE THE BOND PAYMENTS. HE RECOMMENDED THAT WE KIND OF REGROUP WHEN WE HAVE A LITTLE BETTER IDEA ON THE CONSTRUCTION SIDE OF WHAT OUR SCHEDULING WILL BE, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY GOING TO DETERMINE WHEN WE WANT TO LOOK AT BOND ISSUANCE. SO WE ARE IN THE PROCESS, I BELIEVE, OF SELECTING THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE. AND THEN WE'LL KIND OF BRING OUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR, OUR WHOLE GROUP TOGETHER. AND LOOK AT SOME SCHEDULING OPTIONS FOR THE BOND. I ALSO, THIS IS A GREAT THING TO BRING UP BECAUSE I HAVE SUGGESTED TO OUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR THAT HE COME AND VISIT THIS COMMISSION AND PRESENT SOME OF THE IDEAS THAT HE'S DISCUSSED INTERNALLY WITH CITY STAFF, FOR EXAMPLE, ON A COMPETITIVE VERSUS NEGOTIATED SALE, WHICH IS A DECISION THE CITY WILL MAKE. SO I THOUGHT THIS COMMISSION WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT INFORMATION. I BELIEVE I DISCUSSED WITH HIM SOMETIME OVER THE SUMMER TO COME BACK. WE HAVE A COUPLE THINGS, I GUESS, ALREADY FOR AUGUST, BUT SO WHENEVER IS CONVENIENT OR KIND OF MAKES SENSE IN OUR SCHEDULING. I'D LIKE TO BRING HIM HERE AND HE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING AND ANSWER THE COMMISSION'S QUESTIONS. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GOING TO GET TO NEXT. AND YOU COVERED IT. SO YES. SO JUST FOR THE COMMITTEE TO TO BE ON BOARD OF WHAT'S GOING ON, IT IS IF IT'S BOND ISSUANCE, THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF. SO EITHER JULY OR AUGUST I GUESS. IT WILL BE OR. [INAUDIBLE] . YEAH. YEAH, I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON A SCHEDULE. AND I THINK IT JUST KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO SHARE. AT THIS POINT, WE'RE KIND OF WAITING TO HAVE A BETTER IDEA OF THE TIMING. THE ONLY OTHER ITEM TO NOTE IS I CAN'T REMEMBER IF WE COMMUNICATED TO THIS COMMISSION THAT WE HAVE ENGAGED BOND COUNCIL AND DISCLOSURE COUNCIL. SO THEY'RE ON BOARD AS WELL, WHICH MEANS WE HAVE OUR WHOLE FINANCIAL TEAM IN PLACE FOR WHEN WE DECIDE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ISSUANCE. IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY WE CAN GET UPDATED ON THOSE? IS IT SOMETHING WE NEED TO PUT ON THE AGENDA TO GET UPDATED OR. WE'LL ADD IT TO THE AGENDA. AGAIN, I HAVE THIS ON THE SCHEDULE TO COME BACK. I'VE ALREADY TALKED TO OUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR ABOUT IT. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO WORRY THAT WE'LL FORGET IT. ALL RIGHT. WE CAN'T PUT THIS BOND QUESTION ON THE AGENDA UNTIL THE CITY HAS SOME IDEA OF WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD AND WHEN AND WHERE. ALL RIGHT, BECAUSE THE BOND OBVIOUSLY ISN'T GOING TO BE SOLD UNTIL THAT TIME. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE HAS ANY OTHER ITEMS? AND ITEM L. ADJOURNMENT. ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO. AND WHO SECONDED. YEAH. ONE QUESTION I'D LIKE TO EMPHASIZE THE STEPHANIE, THE DISCUSSION WE HAD LAST TIME TO HAVE THIS THE DATA SHOWING WHAT WE'RE SPENDING TOTAL FOR PENSION AND RETIREMENT. AS WE GET INTO BUDGETS IN OUTLYING YEARS, WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE SPECIFICALLY TASKED BECAUSE OF REVENUE AND EXPENSE THERE MAY NOT BE A WHOLE LOT WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S A PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE. SO I ACTUALLY DID LOOK THIS UP. I HAVE THIS IN A PROJECTION. CITY MANAGER HAS NOT SIGNED OFF ON MY PROJECTIONS, SO I WON'T SHARE THE PROJECTION AMOUNT. BUT OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS ABOUT TEN TO GROWING TO 13% OF OUR TOTAL PERSONNEL COSTS ARE OUR PENSION CONTRIBUTION. SO BACK IN 2021, I CAN PULL IT UP HERE. AND YOU'VE INCLUDED IN PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS. YOU'RE INCLUDING. IT IS NOT INCLUDING THE UAL. SO IT'S JUST OUR REGULAR ONGOING PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS. SO BACK IN 2021, IT WAS ABOUT 10% OF COSTS. IN OUR LAST 23-24 ACTUALS AND OUR PROPOSED BUDGET, IT'S ABOUT 13% OF OUR TOTAL PERSONNEL COSTS. AND THE PIECE THAT WE WOULD DISCUSS AS A COMMITTEE, WE NEED TO HAVE THE PENSION CONTRIBUTION AS WELL AS THE UAL PAYMENT, AS WELL AS THE BOND PAYMENT, INTEREST PAYMENT ON THAT, SO THAT ALL IN COST IS WHAT IT'S REALLY COSTING US TO FUND PENSIONS. YEAH. OKAY. SO NOW I MOVE TO ADJOURN. MOVE TO ADJOURN. ANY SECOND? SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MEETING IS ADJOURNED AT 9:19 P.M.. WHOA! * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.