Nov 13, 2025 Budget & Finance Commission

[00:00:12]

HERE. COMMISSIONER JESTE. HERE. COMMISSIONER SHERBIN.

HERE. COMMISSIONER RAMCHARAN. HERE. COMMISSIONER WOODHAM, ABSENT.

COMMISSIONER TURNER, ABSENT. CHAIR ALLEN. HERE.

NEXT. LET'S STAND UP TO SALUTE OUR FLAG. READY? SET, BEGIN. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

[D. APPROVE ORDER OF AGENDA]

AND. DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ORDER OF THE AGENDA? WE DON'T NEED A ROLL CALL FOR THIS. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED. ITEM NUMBER E.

ARE THERE ANY BLUE FOLDER ITEMS TODAY? THERE ARE NO BLUE FOLDER ITEMS FOR TODAY.

THANK YOU. ITEM F CONSENT CALENDAR. DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT CALENDAR,

[F. CONSENT CALENDAR]

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC COMMENTS OR COMMENTS. THANK YOU.

ITEM H.1 OR, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE ONES YOU MENTIONED.

[I. ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS AGENDAS]

I.1 WILL BE RESERVES AND BUDGET CONCERN. THIS IS THE ITEM THAT.

COMMISSIONER JESTE HAS ASKED US TO PUT ON THE AGENDA TO DISCUSS.

JUST TO REMIND YOU THIS, WE DO HAVE A SEPARATE ITEM FOR.

PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AND FOR CIP PROJECTS. SO THIS ONE IS FOR RESERVES AND BUDGET CONCERNS THAT COMMISSIONER JESTE HAS. AND I THINK YOU WANTED TO SHARE SOME OF THE LETTERS THAT YOU AND MAYOR WROTE BACK AND FORTH, AND ALSO THE LETTER YOU WROTE TO THE PAPER. AND THEN I THINK AND I KNOW WE'VE DISCUSSED A LITTLE BIT AND I KIND OF I THINK I MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A SOLUTION.

ALL RIGHT. YOU WANT TO TAKE OVER? OKAY. I THINK THIS HAS BEEN PRESENTED AND DISCUSSED A FEW TIMES IN THE PAST, BUT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF COMMISSIONER RAMCHARAN, I THINK MOST OF THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE GIVEN THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE ARE REFERRING TO. ONE IS THE LETTER I WROTE TO THE MAYOR.

AND EVEN BEFORE I WROTE THAT LETTER, I DISTRIBUTED THROUGH STEPHANIE AN ARTICLE ON THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE, HOW IT IMPLEMENTED THE TOTAL QUALITY MANAGEMENT AND BECAME ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENTLY MANAGED CITIES IN THE COUNTRY.

AND CAN I JUST ASK A QUESTION? YEAH. HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT PARTICULAR CITY TO USE AS A COMPARISON? I LIVED IN FORT WAYNE FOR SEVEN YEARS, AND THIS HAPPENED JUST PRIOR TO MY MOVING TO FORT WAYNE.

AND SINCE THEN THERE HAVE BEEN ARTICLES WRITTEN ABOUT THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE AND HOW IT IS MANAGED THEY GOT A NEW MAYOR WHO CAME FROM A SMALL BUSINESS BACKGROUND, AND HE WAS WELL VERSED IN THE TQM, THE TOTAL QUALITY MANAGEMENT PHILOSOPHY.

AND HE HAD GONE THROUGH AN EXTENSIVE TRAINING, AND HE IMPLEMENTED THAT IN HIS BUSINESS.

AND HE DID THE SAME THING WITH THE CITY AND MADE THE CITY ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENT, MOST RESPONSIVE, AND MOST COST EFFECTIVE CITIES IN THE COUNTRY.

EVEN TODAY, AFTER 25 YEARS, FORT WAYNE IS RANKED IN THE TOP TEN BEST CITIES IN

[00:05:06]

SO IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE SPENT 30 YEARS IN LEARNING AND IMPLEMENTING IN THREE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, AND I'VE HAD SOME OUTSTANDING RESULTS.

SO I'M A FIRM BELIEVER OF THIS, AND THIS IS WHY I DISTRIBUTED THE ARTICLE ON FORT WAYNE.

AND I ALSO SENT IT TO THE MAYOR. AND I POINTED OUT IN MY LETTER THE ONE THING THAT CONCERNED ME THE MOST EARLIER THIS YEAR WAS THAT WHEN WE IN JUNE, WHEN THE CITY COUNCIL DISCUSSED THE THE BUDGET FOR THE 25-26 YEAR, THERE WAS A $3.5 MILLION SHORTFALL, AND THE CITY DECIDED TO MAKE UP FOR THE SHORTFALL BY DIPPING INTO THE PENSION RESERVES.

TO ME, THAT IS AN IRRESPONSIBLE, UNACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.

AND THIS IS ONE THING THAT REALLY CONCERNED ME THE MOST, AND THAT'S WHY I NOT ONLY BROUGHT IT UP IN OUR MEETINGS, BUT I ALSO WROTE TO THE MAYOR ABOUT IT. AND HIS RESPONSE WAS THAT HE COMPLETELY OVERLOOKED OR IGNORED MY COMMENTS ABOUT THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT.

I HAD MENTIONED FIVE PRIORITIES FOR THE CITY.

I SAID BALANCE THE BUDGET. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS NEED MORE DATA, MORE VISIBILITY, HOMELESSNESS, HOUSING AFFORDABILITY AND EMERGENCY RESERVES.

AND HIS RESPONSE WAS WHAT I CIRCULATED AMONG THE COMMISSION MEMBERS.

CAN WE HAVE THAT ON THE SCREEN, PLEASE? I HAVE IT UP ON MY SCREEN.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO SWITCH OVER HERE. JUST LET ME KNOW WHICH ITEM YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE UP HERE.

COMMISSIONER JESTE. RIGHT NOW I HAVE THE LETTER.

IT'S A PRETTY LONG WINDED LETTER. I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE IT IF YOU DON'T MIND.

I'LL SUMMARIZE HIS RESPONSE. AND I MENTIONED IN MY LETTER I POINTED OUT THESE FIVE THINGS IN ADDITION TO TAKING A LOOK AT THE TQM PROCESS AS IMPLEMENTED BY FORT WAYNE, THAT THAT'S THE ROLE MODEL THAT'S IN FRONT OF US.

SO WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. HE RESPONDED ON JULY 22ND, AND HE ONLY HAD A FEW ITEMS. HE SAID THE BALANCE, THE BUDGET.

HE SAID, I URGED THE COUNCIL NOT TO SPEND THE DISCRETIONARY FUNDS, BUT THEY DID NOT LISTEN.

SO HE IS BLAMING THE CITY COUNCIL. AND THEN HE SAYS, I HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE A SHORT TERM IMPACT ON THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS.

HE SAID THEY ARE CONFUSING. SOME ARE FUNDED BY GRANTS, SOME ARE OUT OF OUR BUDGET, SOME ARE DEFERRED PROJECTS.

I RECOMMENDED SOME IMPROVEMENTS, BUT SO FAR NO CHANGES.

SO AGAIN, HE'S BLAMING THE ADMINISTRATION. THEN HOMELESSNESS.

SAID I HAVE THE SAME CONCERN? STEPHANIE HAS AGREED TO WORK WITH JOY TO BUILD MORE TRACKING INTO THE REPORTING SYSTEMS, WHICH I THINK IS HAPPENING NOW. HOUSING AFFORDABILITY.

HE SAID, TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. EMERGENCY RESERVES.

AGAIN. HE SAID THE IF THE COMMISSION AGREES, WE SHOULD INCREASE OUR RESERVES.

HAS IT SENT MUCH ADVICE TO THE COUNCIL? I'VE NEVER SEEN IT.

IF SOMETHING WE MAY BE ABLE TO TACKLE AT A LATER DATE.

SO THAT ALSO HE CLAIMED WAS NOT SOMETHING HE COULD DO.

NOW, THIS IS REALLY ARE A PROBLEM IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE THE MAYOR IS CONSIDERED THE CEO OF THE CITY ADMINISTRATION CITY IF IT IS CONSIDERED AS A CORPORATION.

JUST A QUICK QUESTION. IF I CAN INTERRUPT YOU FOR JUST A SECOND. THE MAYOR SAID HE NEVER SAW THE LETTER THAT THE COUNCIL SENT TO THE,

[00:10:06]

HOWEVER, I DID FOLLOW UP BECAUSE WE DID SEND THAT LETTER TO HIM INTO THE COUNCIL.

SO I JUST VERIFIED THAT IT'S IN MY SENT EMAIL BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER KNOW.

AND HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU AND PROVIDED IT TO THE COUNCIL.

SO AND I DID RESEND IT TO HIM FOLLOWING THIS DISCUSSION, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT HE HAD IT.

HE DID ASK ME SOME FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS ON OUR RESERVES.

SO I THINK HE IS THINKING ABOUT IT. YEAH. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND PARDON ME. SO THIS IS WHERE WE STAND. I THINK THE BUDGET DEFICIT AND JUST TRYING TO MAKE UP FOR IT BY DIPPING INTO PENSION RESERVES TO ME IS REALLY NOT A GOOD WAY TO DO IT. IT SETS UP A VERY BAD PRECEDENT.

AND ONCE YOU OPEN THE DOOR FOR THIS KIND OF A SOLUTION IS GOING TO GET WORSE.

THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND EVEN THE STATE LEVEL.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE OF GREAT CONCERN TO US.

AND WE SHOULD NEVER, EVER SIMPLY PUT A RUBBER STAMP ON THE ENTIRE BUDGET.

EVEN WITH THIS KIND OF A TEMPORARY FIX TO THE BUDGET DEFICIT, SOMETHING WE NEED TO GO ON RECORD AS HAVING OPPOSED IT AND ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF IT. IF WE DON'T DO THAT, THEN WE ARE NOT DOING OUR JOB.

THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. SO AS FAR AS THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS. AND I REMEMBER ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO WE SPENT AN HOUR AND A HALF TO DISCUSS HOW MUCH THE CITY ATTORNEY SHOULD BE PAID.

AND THEN I THINK THE SAME MEETING OR MEETING AFTER THAT, WE SPENT ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF TO APPROVE THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT PLAN. AND, MIKE, IF I REMEMBER, HE HAD ONE SLIDE AND HE SHOWED ONLY TEN PROJECTS.

I DON'T KNOW HOW HE PICKED, PROBABLY AT RANDOM.

AND HE SAID THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO WORK ON.

I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER IF THEY HAD ANY NUMBERS ABOUT THE HOW MUCH EACH PROJECT WAS GOING TO COST.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WOULD PRIORITIZE. SO THERE WERE A LOT OF ISSUES.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU REALLY NEED TO SPEND A LOT MORE TIME ON BECAUSE WE SPEND RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE $95 MILLION ALLOCATED FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, AND EVERY YEAR WE'RE SPENDING BETWEEN 18 AND $20 MILLION ON CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS. AND SOMETHING AFTER ALMOST TWO YEARS, WE FINALLY GOT SOME MORE DETAILS OTHER THAN WHAT THE TOTAL COST AT THE END OF THE PROJECT WAS, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THE PROJECT BEGAN AND HOW MUCH WAS ANTICIPATED OR PROJECTED FOR THAT PROJECT AND WHERE WE ENDED UP WITH. SO FINALLY, WE GOT SOME NUMBERS THANKS TO STEPHANIE AND THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING FIGURES. INITIAL APPROPRIATED AMOUNT THAT THE COUNCIL APPROVED WAS JUST UNDER $10 MILLION.

$9,978,668. SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE SAME PROJECTS WERE $46,913,118, SO 470% OF WHAT WAS INITIALLY APPROPRIATED. 400%, 470%.

SO THE TOTAL APPROPRIATIONS WERE $56,891,786.

TOTAL PROJECT SPENDING WAS $33,591,000, WHICH WAS MORE THAN 300% OF WHAT THE INITIAL APPROPRIATION WAS.

SO THE QUESTION WAS, WHERE DID THIS MONEY COME FROM? WAS IT APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL? IF NOT, HOW DID THE PROJECT GROW FROM ALL THE PROJECTS? GROW FROM NINE ALMOST $10 MILLION TO $47 MILLION.

I MIGHT JUST ADD, PERHAPS AN OBSERVATION I'VE HAD A MAJOR PART OF MY CAREER HAS BEEN IN COST ACCOUNTING.

PROJECT DEVELOPMENT. I WAS ASSISTANT CONTROLLER AT COLUMBIA PICTURES FILMED ENTERTAINMENT DIVISION.

[00:15:06]

SO I'M INVOLVED. I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH PROJECT DEVELOPMENT AND I'M QUITE FAMILIAR WITH IT.

LET ME JUST SAY, HERE'S ONE OF THE DYNAMICS THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH.

YOU START WITH AN IDEA FOR A PROJECT, AND YOU IDENTIFY THE DEVELOPMENT STAGE OF THE PROJECT, WHICH USUALLY INCORPORATES GETTING THE DETAILS TOGETHER, DOING, GETTING SOME BETTER ESTIMATES, GETTING A BETTER IDEA WHAT THE PROJECT IS. MAYBE THAT ENDS UP BEING 1 OR 2% OF THE OVERALL PROJECT COST.

SO AT THAT POINT THAT PROJECT GETS A PROJECT NUMBER, IT GETS A DEVELOPMENT AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT PEOPLE ARE WORKING WITH.

AND THEN AS THE AS THE PROJECT DEVELOPS, YOU COULD THINK OF MAYBE MOST OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH MOTION PICTURE TYPE STUFF.

YOU START OFF WITH A WITH A TREATMENT. YOU TAKE AN OPTION ON THE SCRIPT, YOU DECIDE TO GO FORWARD.

MAYBE YOU DEVELOP, YOU GET YOUR ACTORS INVOLVED OR IDENTIFIED.

THEN YOU START LOOKING FOR LOCATIONS SO THAT THE, THE COST OF THAT PROJECT CHANGES AS THE MORE ELEMENTS ARE INTRODUCED. THEN AT SOME POINT IN TIME YOU GET YOUR FINANCING, YOU GO AHEAD AND YOU, YOU SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO YOU IDENTIFY THE PROJECT TO RELEASE THE PROJECT AT THAT POINT IN TIME, AS THE PROJECT DEVELOPS, SOMEONE MIGHT SAY, LET'S.

INSTEAD OF SHOOTING IT IN HAWAII, LET'S GO TO TAHITI.

OH, THAT WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER ENDING PROJECT.

SO THE OUTCOME IS ACTUALLY FORECAST TO BE A BETTER OUTCOME.

IT IT THE PROJECT EVOLVES A KIND OF IS THE POINT.

SO I THINK AS AS THESE NOT ALL CAPITAL PROJECTS PROBABLY WORK THIS WAY.

BUT AS THE PROJECT MOVES ALONG, ITS DYNAMIC GETS CHANGED.

IT COMES BACK TO THE COUNCIL. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THE COUNCIL SAYS, WELL, WHAT DO WE DO? WE WANT TO INCREASE THIS PROJECT SCOPE. BY DOING THIS, THE PROJECT IS APPROVED.

THE NEXT STEP TAKES PLACE, THE MONIES ARE APPROVED AND ALLOCATED.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT WHEN YOU'RE DOING ANY KIND OF A COST ANALYSIS TO IDENTIFY WHAT YOUR FINAL PROJECT IS.

BEFORE YOU LOOK FOR THE VARIANCE BETWEEN THE FINAL PROJECT BUDGET AND THE AND THE FINAL COST.

AND THEN EVEN WHEN YOU DEVELOP THAT THAT VARIANCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS YOU BREAK THAT DOWN.

WAS IT IS THE IS THE VARIANCE BECAUSE OF AN INCREASE IN LABOR COSTS.

MATERIAL IS AND IS IT BECAUSE WE USE MORE MATERIAL OR WAS THE MATERIAL MORE EXPENSIVE? WAS THE LABOR MORE LABOR USE. AND SO CONSEQUENTLY, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE COURSE OF THAT EXECUTION OF THE PROJECT.

AND PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS SUBSEQUENTLY, AT THE END OF THE PROJECT, TO LOOK BACK AT IT AND SAY, LET'S, LET'S DO THE ROOT CAUSE YOU KNOW, FOR WHAT? HOW DID WE GET TO WHERE WE ENDED UP? SO I YEAH.

THANK YOU. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS BECAUSE I'VE DONE THIS FOR 30 YEARS TOO.

SO IT'S NOTHING NEW. NOTHING. ALL I'M SAYING, I UNDERSTAND ALL THESE THINGS.

ALL I'M SAYING IS, WHERE IS THE VISIBILITY? DO WE HAVE A BREAKDOWN OF WHERE, HOW MUCH MONEY WAS SPENT AND HOW IT GREW TO THAT LEVEL, AND WAS IT ALL APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OR WE FOUND SOME WAY TO KEEP GOING? THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING FOR MORE VISIBILITY, MORE DETAIL.

AND I THINK THAT'S EXCELLENT BECAUSE, AS I SAY IN THE IN THE ASSESSMENT OF A PROJECT, THAT'S THE ROOT CAUSE FOR WHERE THE VARIANCE IS, IS THE MOST ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT. WE DON'T SEE THAT.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT IN THE PAST. SO IF WE MAKE THAT HABIT OF LOOKING AT THE DATA AND ANALYZING IT AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF IT ALL MAKES SENSE. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

I'M NOT POINTING FINGER AT ANYONE OR ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY WAS SPENT.

YES, IT MAKES SENSE WHAT YOU ARE ASKING. AND SO WE HAVE AN ITEM ON THE CIP.

I THINK IT'S J.2. AND THERE ARE SOME ATTACHMENTS THAT JESSE HAD SENT SO WE CAN GO THROUGH THOSE ATTACHMENTS MAYBE.

STEPHANIE TOLD ME JUST BEFORE WE STARTED THAT SHE HAS SOME NEW INFORMATION THAT SHE WILL BE PRESENTING.

SO LET'S WAIT TILL WE SEE WHAT SHE HAS. SO WE'LL DISCUSS MORE ON ITEM J.2.

WERE YOU WERE YOU GOING TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE OR ARE YOU FINISHED? BECAUSE I DO HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR THE BUDGET.

[00:20:01]

BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW. IT WAS A SURPRISE TO THEM AS IT WAS A SURPRISE TO US.

SO FOR THAT REASON, AND I THINK ONE THING THAT I SEE IS THAT FINANCE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T REALLY PRESENT TO COUNCIL ON QUARTERLY BASIS. NEITHER IS THE TREASURER'S OFFICE.

THEY ONLY PRESENT TO OUR COMMISSION. AND THE TRUTH IS, WE'RE JUST VOLUNTEERS AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY.

WE DON'T THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY THEY THROW AT US RULES WHENEVER THEY WANT.

AND WE JUST I MEAN, WE'RE REALLY NOBODY. SO FOR THAT PURPOSE, THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR TO SEND A LETTER ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION TO THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL RECOMMENDING THAT THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT BEGIN PROVIDING QUARTERLY BUDGET UPDATES DIRECTLY TO THE COUNCIL IN ADDITION TO THE COMMISSION.

THE INTENT OF THE LETTER IS TO PROMOTE GREATER FISCAL TRANSPARENCY.

SINCE PEOPLE FOLLOW COUNCIL MEETINGS AND THEY ATTEND COUNCIL MEETINGS, THEY WATCH COUNCIL MEETINGS, ENSURE EARLIER IDENTIFICATION, IDENTIFICATION OF BUDGETARY ISSUES, AND STRENGTHEN ACCOUNTABILITY AMONG STAFF, COUNCIL AND COMMISSION. THE LETTER WILL OUTLINE THE BENEFITS OF QUARTERLY REPORTING, SUGGESTS THAT THE PRESENTATION, WHAT THE THE PRESENTATION SHOULD INCLUDE AND EMPHASIZE THE PROCESS WILL HELP CLARIFY ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES IN FUTURE BUDGET DISCUSSIONS. AND I CAN ALSO ATTACH TO THAT LETTER THE RESERVE LETTER THAT WE HAD SENT TO THEM.

SO BASICALLY WHAT I WANT TO DO IS WE'RE NOT I DON'T THINK WE'RE BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

RIGHT. BECAUSE WE'RE VOLUNTEERS, UNDERSTANDABLY.

FINANCE DEPARTMENT SHOULD BE PRESENTING DIRECTLY TO COUNCIL ON QUARTERLY BASIS.

SO THE COUNCIL LEARNS BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW.

THEY'RE NOT FINANCE GUYS. [INAUDIBLE] ARE NOT PRESENTING ON A QUARTERLY BASIS? WE DON'T PRESENT TO COUNCIL. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN HERE TWO YEARS.

THIS IS JUST NOT SOMETHING THE CITY HAS HISTORICALLY DONE.

GOTCHA. YEAH. THAT'S WHY OUR COUNCIL DOESN'T KNOW.

I MEAN, IN A WAY, I DON'T BLAME THEM BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T KNOW.

THEY DON'T GET EDUCATED. THEY DON'T ASK QUESTIONS. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT.

I'VE NEVER SEEN A CITY COUNCIL TRYING TO BUDGET OR THERE'S NO MID-YEAR NO PLAN OTHER THAN WHAT MIKE PRESENTS FOR THE STRATEGIC MEETING.

SO ACTUALLY WE DO PRESENT TO COUNCIL FOR OUR YEAR END FINANCIAL REPORTING FOR CARRYOVER.

WE PRESENT TO BUDGET FOR MID-YEAR AND WE PRESENT TO COUNCIL FOR BUDGET.

SO THE REPORTS THAT WE DO NOT PRESENT TO COUNCIL ARE THE QUARTERLY ONES.

LIKE WE'LL PRESENT TO YOU TONIGHT. GOTCHA. SO I'D LIKE COUNCIL TO GET TO LEARN FINANCES.

THAT WAY THEY'LL BE THEY'LL GET AHEAD OF WHAT'S COMING.

SO THAT WE'RE BEING PROACTIVE. THEY DON'T JUST GET A SURPRISE.

OH, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DIP INTO THE RESERVES THE ENTIRE YEAR THEY HAD PLANNED HOW THEY WERE GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SOMEBODY TELLS THEM, OH, NO, YOU CAN'T.

WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE VISIBILITY. GOT IT. I UNDERSTAND.

AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND THEY'RE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE.

SO LET'S MAKE THEM RESPONSIBLE. BECAUSE IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AND SOMEONE SUES THE CITY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO CUT NOW FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR FIRE DEPARTMENT, I WANT TO MAKE SURE NOBODY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO POINT A FINGER AT US.

WE ARE POINTING THE FINGER AT THEM. THEY'RE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE AND THEY NEED TO LEARN.

AND THEY NEED TO BE PROACTIVE. I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE I CAN EDUCATE THEM.

WHAT DO YOU SAY? MAKES SENSE. EXCEPT THIS GOES BACK TO JUNE ON JUNE 26TH.

THE EASY READER HAD A REALLY GOOD ARTICLE ON WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL DISCUSSED IN THEIR MONTHLY MEETING, AND I THINK IT'LL BE WORTH READING THAT ARTICLE, BECAUSE IN THAT ARTICLE, IT SAYS THE CITY MANAGER PRESENTED THE OVERALL BUDGET AND HE DID BRING UP THE TOPIC OF BUDGET DEFICIT.

AND THEN ONE OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS ACTUALLY, SHE REPRESENTS MY DISTRICT THREE.

PAIGE. SHE RAISED A LOT OF ISSUES THAT SHE WAS NOT COMFORTABLE WITH.

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FOR EXAMPLE, SHE TALKED ABOUT $306,000 FOR A TRIMMING.

SHE ALSO CALLED TO FOR TO REJECT NEW RADIOS IN THE COMING NEW FIRE DEPARTMENT 95,000.

AND TO HOLD OFF ON HIRING NEW POSITIONS. THESE ARE AND THEN SHE GOES ON TO BRING UP A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.

SO SHE THIS WAS DISCUSSED IN THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING IN JUNE.

THEY TALKED ABOUT THE DEFICIT. THEY TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT COULD BE DEFERRED OR CANCELED, LIKE THE NEW HIRES, IN ORDER TO BALANCE THE BUDGET.

AND IN THE END, EVEN PAIGE, SHE FELL IN LINE WITH THE REST OF THE MEMBERS, AND THEY VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO APPROVE THE BUDGET BECAUSE THEY WERE THEY WERE MAKING HER LOOK LIKE SHE DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THE CITY BETTER.

SHE DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THE CITY PRETTIER, OR HEALTHIER.

SO? SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN. BUT WE CAN'T FIRE COUNCIL.

WE CAN'T. RECALLS DON'T WORK. THERE'S NOTHING.

WE CAN'T FORCE THEM. NO. BUT TO YOUR COMMENT THAT THEY.

IT WAS A SURPRISE AND THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

I THINK THIS ARTICLE SHOWS THAT THEY HAD THE DISCUSSION.

THEY COULD HAVE TRIMMED SOME EXPENSES AND SOME PROJECTS IN ORDER TO TRY TO BALANCE THE BUDGET AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

THEY DIDN'T DO IT. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS BETWEEN THE COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL, AND IF THEY MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT THEY FEEL ARE APPROPRIATE ASSUMPTIONS? I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT IS SUPPOSED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IMPACT WE COULD HAVE OTHER THAN, AGAIN, PREPARING A LETTER, PREPARING A RECOMMENDATION.

IT'S UP TO THOSE CITY COUNCILMEN TO BE MAKING THE DECISIONS ON ON THE FINAL DECISION ON RUNNING THE CITY, I THINK. SO, YOU KNOW, AS I SAY, I'M KIND OF SEARCHING FOR SEARCHING FOR A METHOD.

WE'VE GOT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. ONE IS WHAT THE COMMISSION'S RESPONSIBILITY IS AND WHAT OUR AUTHORITY IS.

ALL I SAID IN THE BEGINNING WAS TO EXPRESS OUR DISAPPROVAL OF THE WAY THE BUDGET IS PREPARED AND THE WAY THE DEFICIT IS FINANCED. THAT IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD NOT ENDORSE AND APPROVE.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. SO LET'S WRITE ANOTHER LETTER. AND THEN WHAT I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST IS THAT SO THAT IT DOESN'T GET LOST IN THEIR EMAILS BECAUSE THEY RECEIVE SO MANY EMAILS, AND THEN WE CAN GO TO ONE OF THE PUBLIC MEETINGS AND WE CAN TAKE THAT THREE MINUTES AND READ THAT LETTER THAT WAY.

THERE'S A VERY VISIBLE YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMMUNICATING THE SAME THING IN TWO WAYS.

WE'RE GETTING THERE. THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO. THERE ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE.

YOU KNOW, I CAN. YEAH, I THINK WE IN ADDITION TO SENDING A LETTER, WE ALSO READ THE LETTER TO THEM AT THE PUBLIC MEETING WHERE PEOPLE ARE WATCHING.

PEOPLE ARE ATTENDING. YEAH, I LIKE THAT. YEAH.

I THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. YEAH. YEAH. WHEN THE COUNCIL MEMBER RAISES OBJECTIONS AND STILL VOTES IN FAVOR OF THE BUDGET AND THE WAY THE DEFICIT IS FINANCED, SHE OWNS IT.

AND WE AS COMMISSIONERS, WE NEED TO GO ON RECORD THAT FINANCING THE BUDGET DEFICIT BY DIPPING INTO PENSION RESERVES IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN ENDORSE OR APPROVE. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I THINK THAT'S A FINE IDEA.

AND I THINK SEPARATING IT OUT SO THAT IF ANY COUNCILMAN OR PARDON ME, COMMISSIONER FEELS PERSONALLY STRONGLY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THEY, AS AN INDIVIDUAL CAN GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING AND EXPRESS THEIR CONCERN.

BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO THAT IN ANY FORMAL SENSE.

WE CAN WE CAN ASK TO BE TO HAVE US ON THE AGENDA, AND WE CAN ACTUALLY MAKE AN ITEM OF IT.

AND FOR THE CITY AND FOR THE CITY COUNCIL. YEAH.

OKAY. WE CAN ASK TO TO GET ON THE AGENDA. I MEAN, THAT'S BUT TO ME, I THINK IT WOULD BE JUST MORE EFFICIENT IF WE DID THE THREE MINUTE.

INDIVIDUAL COMMENT SECTION. WE DON'T HAVE TO.

WE CAN WE CAN READ THE LETTER ON BEHALF OF A COMMISSION, BUT WE CAN ALSO DO AN INDIVIDUAL.

BUT THAT'S THREE MINUTES IS OURS. WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO DO WITH THAT.

[00:30:02]

IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS, BUT WE NEED TO GO ON RECORD THAT WE DO NOT ENDORSE.

AND I THINK THAT WILL PUT US ON RECORD. IT WILL BE IN PUBLIC MEETING AND IT WILL BE, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE IN THEIR MINUTES, NOT IN OUR MINUTES, BECAUSE NOBODY CARES ABOUT OUR MINUTES.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE VOLUNTEERS. NOBODY WATCHES US.

NOBODY ATTENDS. THANK YOU.

HI, JIM. YEAH. SO I THINK THAT'S A GREAT PLAN.

IF I HEARD YOU PROPERLY. SO YOU WOULD WRITE TWO LETTERS.

ONE TO ASK THAT THEY GET A QUARTERLY BUDGETARY UPDATE, AND THEN THE SECOND LETTER WOULD BE HOW THEY FINANCE THE BUDGET DEFICIT.

RIGHT. IS THAT THE TWO THE TWO THEMES THAT YOU WANT TO PICK ON, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE SECOND ONE, HOW THEY WOULD FINANCE THE BUDGET. EXPRESSING DISAPPROVAL ABOUT DRAWING ON THE RESERVES TO FINANCE THE DEFICIT IS SORT OF WHAT THE THEME IS.

I'M PICKING UP. I THINK WE ALREADY WROTE THEM A LETTER ON THAT.

THEY ALREADY HAVE A LETTER ON THAT. SO THEN WHAT WOULD THE SECOND LETTER BE? SO THE LETTER I WAS THERE WAS NO SECOND LETTER I ONLY ONE LETTER.

ONE LETTER ASKING BECAUSE WELL, SO THE ONE LETTER WILL ASK THAT THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT DIRECTLY QUARTERLY BASIS, GIVE THEM UPDATES. YEAH. THAT'S GREAT.

I THINK COMMISSIONER JESTE TO YOUR POINT, IS ALSO SAYING HE WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE HIS CONCERNS ABOUT DEFICIT FINANCING OF OUR BUDGET AND WE CAN ADD IT IN THAT LETTER. WE CAN ONLY.

SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORK WITH ME TO PUT THAT LETTER TOGETHER? SURE. I'LL BE HAPPY TO. SO ONE NICE LETTER. AND THEN WHEN AND WHEN WE READ IT TO THEM DURING PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU KNOW, I CAN READ PART OF IT AND THEN YOU CAN READ PART OF IT, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER LONG WE NEED, WE CAN WE CAN USE THE TIME. THERE ARE WAYS TO COMMUNICATE TO THEM, OR IF WE REALLY THINK WE NEED TO GET ON THEIR AGENDA AND MAKE THIS A BIG TOPIC, WE CAN ALSO DO THAT.

BUT AT THIS POINT, I THINK JUST GOING ON, AS LONG AS WE GO ON RECORD, I THINK THAT'S OKAY.

AND JUST A DUMB QUESTION. DID THEY ON THE DEFICIT, DO WE KNOW IF IT'S A SHORTFALL IN REVENUE, OR IS IT EXPENDITURES THAT WENT BEYOND WHAT THEY HAD IN THE BUDGET? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW THE ANSWER TO? I MEAN, I CAN I CAN GIVE YOU OUR ESTIMATION OF IT.

I MEAN, I THINK THERE IS SOME WE SEE SOME ADDITIONAL ROOM FOR REVENUES TO GROW.

SO THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT. STEPHANIE, I'M SO SORRY. CAN I INTERRUPT? SO. SO THE QUESTION I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO CURRENT BACK WHEN WE DIPPED INTO THE RESERVES, WAS THAT BECAUSE OF THE REVENUE OR EXPENSES? THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTOOD THE QUESTION TO BE. SO YEAH, WHAT THE SPECIFIC ITEM DRIVING THAT IS OUR ONE LARGE LUMP SUM PENSION PAYMENT OUR PAYMENT TO CALPERS, WHICH IS $4.2 MILLION THIS YEAR WHICH WE WERE NOT ABLE TO COMPLETELY COVER WITH ONGOING REVENUES.

SO, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S NOT THE CITY'S ONLY EXPENSE, RIGHT? IF WE HAD FEWER OTHER EXPENSES, WE WOULD HAVE POTENTIALLY BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THAT ONE TIME EXPENSE.

ADDITIONALLY, IF WE ANTICIPATED MORE REVENUES, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN POTENTIALLY ABLE TO COVER THAT EXPENSE.

BUT THAT IS THE SPECIFIC ITEM THAT WAS REALLY WE'RE UNABLE TO COVER WITH ONGOING REVENUES, WHICH IS WHY WE PULLED FROM THE PENSION RESERVES, WHICH AGAIN, THE COUNCIL SET ASIDE SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT PURPOSE.

UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE TIMES WHEN WE'D HAVE THESE LARGE LUMP SUM PAYMENTS, I THINK MAYBE THAT GIVES US A GOOD OPPORTUNITY THEN TO TO LOCK INTO SOMETHING, TO SAY THAT STARTING WITH THE, THE MUST DO KINDS OF EXPENSES LIKE THE PENSION PAYMENT, IT'S FINE.

GET THAT'S A FIXED THAT BECOMES A FIXED COST THAT WE HAVE TO COVER.

AND THE OTHER THE OTHER I'M SORRY. UNFORTUNATE PART IS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PREDICT.

WELL YES BUT BUT AGAIN SOME OF THE OTHER ITEMS PERHAPS LIKE THE FIRING RANGE IN DISTRICT THREE, $3 MILLION DEPOSIT ON NOT KNOWING WHAT THE OUTCOME IS THAT THEY DECIDED TO GO FORWARD WITH THAT MIGHT BE ONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES THAT THEY MIGHT DEFER, LET'S SAY, UNTIL THE REVENUE STREAM IS CONFIRMED.

[00:35:02]

AND BUT BUT NOT RUN INTO THE NOT BUT AND NOT RUN INTO THE DEFICIT BECAUSE YOU'RE YOU'RE SELECTING A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE ALTERNATE. WELL, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, WAS THE CALPERS PAYMENT UNEXPECTED? SO IT WAS NO NO WAY TO FORECAST THAT THIS WAS GOING TO COME UP OR IN EXCESS OF WHAT WE HAD ORIGINALLY ANTICIPATED.

SO THAT'S THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. WE DID KNOW ABOUT THAT PAYMENT.

SO BECAUSE CALPERS, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY PROVIDE US THE INFORMATION, WE KNOW IN A WE KNOW A YEAR IN ADVANCE.

OKAY. YEAH. WHAT THAT PAYMENT IS GOING TO BE.

SO YOU'RE CORRECT. WE DID HAVE A YEAR TO YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THAT PAYMENT WAS COMING AND WE HAD TO DETERMINE HOW TO HOW WE'RE GOING TO SPEND IT. I THINK THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALSO FORECASTING AT THE TIME WE PREPARED THE BUDGET, FORECASTING HOW THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR WOULD END AND WHAT WE SAW LOOKING AT THAT IS WE WEREN'T EXPECTING THE TYPE OF SAVINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN THE LAST FEW YEARS, WHICH IS A COMBINATION OF REVENUE AND SPENDING.

SO THE THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES, WE HAD SOME TIME TO PREPARE FOR IT.

I MEAN, A YEAR ISN'T, YOU KNOW, SUPER LONG TIME.

HOWEVER, WE DID KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING, RIGHT.

AND I THINK TO FORGETTING WHICH COMMISSIONERS POINT.

THIS WAS A MOMENT AGO. THAT EXPENSE IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PREDICT MANY YEARS IN THE FUTURE.

HOWEVER, IT IS GOING TO BE A FIXED EXPENSE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE UNLESS WE REFINANCE OUR PENSION DEBT AGAIN.

SO SOMETHING THAT THE CITY MANAGER TALKED ABOUT IN HIS BUDGET MESSAGE IS, AGAIN, THAT WE SEE THIS YEAR KIND OF AS A BRIDGE YEAR.

WHAT WE CAUTIOUSLY ANTICIPATE IS THAT WILL BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, SEE A BIT OF REVENUE GROWTH THAT WILL HELP US TO COVER THAT AMOUNT FOR THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR.

BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF UNCERTAINTIES, AS I'M SURE EVERYONE HERE IS AWARE.

SO WHAT HE SAID IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL THESE OPTIONS, AND, YOU KNOW, WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO ANTICIPATE COSTS TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN.

SO JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, THEN IF I GOT IT.

SO YOU, YOU GUYS, YOU SORT OF YOU I GUESS YOU ANTICIPATED ONE YEAR PRIOR THAT THE EXPENSE WAS COMING.

AND THEN THE IDEA WAS THAT YOU WOULD DRAW ON THE RESERVES TO FINANCE THAT PAYMENT WAS THE, WAS THE PLAN. IT WAS ALWAYS AN OPTION. I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT OUR FIRST CHOICE.

WE WOULD HAVE LOVED TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THOSE RESERVES INTACT.

BUT AGAIN, THAT'S THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE THAT THE COUNCIL DEDICATED THOSE FUNDS FOR.

SO WHILE IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT THE OPTIMAL CHOICE YOU KNOW, THE KNOW, THE CITY MANAGER DETERMINED THAT THAT WAS AN APPROPRIATE USE FOR THOSE FUNDS.

BUT IN THE ORIGINAL BUDGET, IT WAS IT WAS INTENDED THAT THE CALPERS PAYMENT WAS GOING TO COME FROM REVENUES, NOT FROM THE RESERVE. NO, IN THE ORIGINAL BUDGET, IN THE BUDGET AS PROPOSED FOR 25-26, WE ALWAYS ASSUMED IT WAS GOING TO COME FROM CALPERS RESERVE. OKAY. GOT IT. I'M JUST SAYING, WHEN WE INITIALLY GOT THE, YOU KNOW, INFORMATION FROM CALPERS A YEAR PRIOR, YOU KNOW, WE THOUGHT THAT WAS AN OPTION AND WE'RE HOPING TO POTENTIALLY SEE SOME ADDITIONAL REVENUE IN THE YEAR THAT WOULD HAVE.

YEAH. SO THE THE PAYMENT, YOU SAID THAT IT WAS ALWAYS INTENDED THAT IT CAME FROM THE RESERVE.

IT WAS NOT ALWAYS INTENDED. THAT WAS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY.

SO I THINK WHEN WE WERE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS LARGE PAYMENT THAT WE LEARNED ABOUT EVENTUALLY.

THAT'S. YES. SO WE ALWAYS WE CONSIDER THAT AN OPTION.

SO IT'S NOT THE FIRST CHOICE. DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE GOING TO PULL IT FROM THE CALPERS RESERVE.

THAT WAS A DECISION THE CITY MANAGER CAME TO DURING OUR BUDGET DEVELOPMENT.

SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT WAS, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS A COMPLETE SURPRISE TO US.

WE FOUND OUT FROM THE COUNCIL MEETINGS. OKAY.

OKAY. SO THE THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT WE DON'T WE ARE ABLE TO FORECAST AND LEARN THAT NOW WE HAVE TO PULL FROM THOSE FUNDS A YEAR AT LEAST A YEAR AHEAD, NOT THE MONTH OF.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY TO ME THAT'S I YOU KNOW I KNOW ULTIMATELY IT'S COUNCIL'S RESPONSIBILITY.

BUT THE INFORMATION WHEN IT WAS BEING PROVIDED TO THEM THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TIME TO THINK.

AND THEY HAD THEY HAD PROMISES TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

[00:40:01]

THOSE WERE THE THOSE WERE THE REASONS THAT THEY WERE ELECTED.

THOSE ARE THE HARD DECISIONS THAT WERE HAPPY TO THAT THEY ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR.

BUT IN WATCHING THAT THAT PROCESS, THEY COME UP WITH PLANS FOR MEETING THE REVENUE OR KEEPING THE EXPENSES AND REVENUE IN LINE, AND THEY MAKE A DECISION.

IF THEY DECIDE TO, TO, TO SPEND MORE THAN THE REVENUE PROVIDES AND THEY GO PROJECT BY PROJECT AND THE, THE COUNCILMAN ARE SITTING THERE COMING UP WITH THEIR PROPOSALS AND THEY'RE SWITCHING BACK AND FORTH.

AND THE PROCESS THEN ENDS BY SAYING, YOU CAN HAVE THIS PROJECT FOR YOUR AREA.

YOU CAN HAVE THIS ONE FOR YOUR AREA, AND WE'LL BORROW THE MONEY FROM THE CONTINGENCY FUND.

AND AND TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM VERSUS SAYING WE DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY TO SPEND.

SO WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A DIFFERENT VIEW ABOUT WHAT WE CAN PROVIDE TO THE CONSTITUENTS OF THE CITY.

YES, I AGREE WITH YOU. BUT ALSO A LOT OF THEM WERE NEW, BRAND NEW.

THEY WERE ON COUNCIL FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS. MAYBE THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY THEY'RE NOT USED TO THIS.

THIS WAS A SURPRISE TO THEM. THEY WERE NOT PREPARED FOR IT.

I'M NOT AGREEING THAT WHAT THEY DID IS CORRECT, BUT I'M JUSTIFYING THAT IT WAS A SURPRISE TO THEM, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU JUST GOT ELECTED AND THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION THROWN AT YOU.

I MEAN, IT MUST BE SO OVERWHELMING TO BE IN THEIR POSITION.

SO I, I WANT TO SAY I WELL, REMEMBER ONE OF THE NEW COUNCIL PEOPLE CAME FROM THE COMMISSION HERE THIS LAST CYCLE.

SO WE WE ASSUME THAT THE THAT COUNCILMAN CASTLE IS PRETTY WELL ENDOWED WITH.

SO I GUESS WITH THE QUARTERLY, IF WE WRITE THE LETTER ON THE QUARTERLY UPDATES, THAT WOULD AT LEAST INFORM THE COUNCIL.

AT LEAST THEY'LL HAVE THE OPTION TO KNOW. OR THEY'LL KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE'S A BIG EXPENSE AND THEY CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE RIGHT WAY TO SORT OF DEAL WITH THAT. YEAH. THEY'LL HAVE MORE TIME.

THEY'LL THEY'LL DIGEST BETTER. THEY'LL BE ABLE TO HAVE MORE COMMUNICATION, ASK QUESTIONS, LEARN. I THINK MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT THEY LEARN AND THEY THEY JUST STAND OUT THERE.

THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST PEOPLE. THEY'RE NOT MBAS.

YEAH. MAKES SENSE. YEAH. CAN WE MAKE A MOTION, OR CAN WE SECOND THE MOTION AND MOVE ON WITH THIS TOPIC? I SECOND THE MOTION. IS THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO PHRASE IT? I SECOND THE MOTION. I SECOND THE MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE. OH, BEFORE. BEFORE. I'M SO SORRY. BEFORE.

BEFORE THE MOTION. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? NO PUBLIC COMMENTS. DO WE HAVE ANY ONLINE COMMENTS? WE DO NOT HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR ATTENDEES ON ZOOM.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR? OH, AND WHO WANTS TO WORK WITH ME? WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORK WITH ME? OKAY. AND WE'LL.

I'LL GET TO IT RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE I'M FREE. COULD I ASK THAT WE CLARIFY WHAT IT IS EXACTLY THAT WE'RE PREPARING TO DO? OH, I READ A RESTATE THE MOTION. SO ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION, WE'LL SEND A LETTER.

AND WE'LL ALSO READ THE LETTER AT A PUBLIC COMMENT.

DEPENDING ON HOW LONG THE LETTER IS, I'M HOPING IT WILL BE JUST THREE MINUTES SO ONE PERSON CAN DO AND IT UP.

YOU KNOW, WE'LL WORK WITH COMMISSIONER JESTE, HOWEVER, HE THINKS WOULD BE ALSO, YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT, WE'RE TRUSTING THESE TWO PEOPLE THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING FINANCE DEPARTMENT, IN ADDITION TO PROVIDING QUARTERLY BUDGET UPDATES TO THE COMMISSION, THEY ALSO PROVIDE IT TO THE COUNCIL.

AND IN THAT LETTER AND THIS WILL PROMOTE GREATER FISCAL TRANSPARENCY, SINCE THEY'RE THE PUBLIC WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT AND HEAR IT AND WATCH IT SINCE IT'S DONE DURING COUNCIL MEETINGS, IT WILL ENSURE EARLIER IDENTIFICATION OF BUDGETARY ISSUES.

IT WILL. THE LETTER WILL OUTLINE THE BENEFITS OF QUARTERLY REPORTING AND SUGGEST WHAT THE PRESENTATION SHOULD INCLUDE.

SO I'LL. I'LL HAVE POINTS. WHAT ELSE? YOU KNOW, THE MAIN POINTS.

WHAT? HOW IT SHOULD TRACK WHAT IT SHOULD COMPARE TO WHAT? THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ANALYZED. AND HOPEFULLY THE COUNCIL WILL HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO LEARN AND ASK QUESTIONS.

[00:45:04]

AND THEN I DON'T GET ANYTHING BACK FOR WEEKS AND THEN IT WILL DELAY.

WELL, NO, I MEAN THAT WE CAN IDENTIFY PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO CONSTRUCTIVELY PUT IT TOGETHER.

MY QUESTION IS THAT ONCE THAT TAKES PLACE, SINCE IT'S REPRESENTING THE COMMISSIONS, WE CAN DO THAT VISION.

I THINK THE REST OF THE COMMISSION OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE LETTER BEFORE IT ACTUALLY.

OKAY, FORMALLY, WE CAN'T DO THAT. BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT, IT WAS LIKE THE LAST LETTER THAT WE WORKED, IT WAS JUST ME AND COMMISSIONER MARIN. AND THEN I JUST WE WORKED TOGETHER AND I SENT IT ON BEHALF BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE AGREED.

BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO DO IT THAT WAY. YOU WANT TO DO IT THE LONG WAY.

WE CAN'T DO IN THE SPIRIT OF OF COMMISSIONER JESTE'S COMMENTS, THIS IS A CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT PROCESS THAT WE'RE ALL INVOLVED IN.

SO ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO MAKE THINGS BETTER, I SUGGEST I WILL SEND IT TO STEPHANIE, AND STEPHANIE WILL DISTRIBUTE TO THE REST OF THE COMMISSION, AND I'M GOING TO GIVE DEADLINE IF I DO NOT HEAR FROM YOU.

YEAH. THAT'S FAIR. THAT'S THAT'S TOTALLY FAIR.

IF PEOPLE DON'T RESPOND, THEN IT'S A IT'S A FAIT ACCOMPLI.

THAT'S TOTALLY FAIR. YES. I'LL ADD IS CITY OF FORT WAYNE.

WHEN THEY IMPLEMENTED THE TQM PROCESS IN THREE YEARS, IT RESULTED IN SAVINGS OF JUST ABOUT $3 MILLION. SO THAT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT. AND THIS WAS ALL DONE BY THE ADMINISTRATION, NOT BY THE CITY COUNCIL. THEY WERE NOT INVOLVED. THE MAYOR ACTING AS THE CEO OF THE ORGANIZATION.

HE PUSHED THROUGH THE CHANGES AND TRAINED THE PEOPLE AND MADE SURE THAT THE DATA WAS COLLECTED, ANALYZED, AND ACTION WAS TAKEN TO SIMPLIFY AND COST REDUCE ANYTHING THAT WAS CONSIDERED INEFFICIENT, UNPRODUCTIVE AND A WASTE. SO THAT RESULTED IN SAVINGS.

SO WE IF WE HAD DONE THAT HERE, WE WOULD NOT BE SEEING THE DEFICIT AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME THE MOST IS THAT WAS 25 YEARS AGO. THE LAST TEN YEARS, FIVE YEARS, THREE YEARS.

TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE SOME TREMENDOUS STRIDES. NOW STEPHANIE AND OUR IT DIRECTOR, THEY ARE USING THE AI TO MAKE SOME FANCY PRESENTATIONS. AI CAN ALSO BE USED FOR SIMPLIFYING AND STREAMLINING YOUR INTERNAL PROCESSES.

I THINK THAT'S A SEPARATE ITEM. I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MAYBE BRINGING UP AS WELL, TALKING TO OUR TECHNOLOGY DEPARTMENT AND ALL THAT, BUT WE MAY WANT TO LIMIT THE SCOPE OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IN THE NEXT BOARD MEETING ON THAT LETTER TO THE TWO THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.

BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THE CITY NEEDS TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.

WE CAN RECOMMEND, AS I DID WITH THE MAYOR LIGHT BACK IN JULY, BUT HE COMPLETED COMPLETELY DISCUSSION ON THE OF THE TQM AND WHAT THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE DID.

SO OBVIOUSLY HE HAS NOT HE'S NOT INTERESTED AND HE DOESN'T SHOW ANY DESIRE TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHICH IS REALLY SAD AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.

OKAY. SO I'M NOT GOING TO READ EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN, AND WE ALREADY HAD A SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED.

ALL RIGHT. ITEM NUMBER J.2. IF THIS IS THE ONE THAT JESTE, I

[J. ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION PRIOR TO ACTION]

I FORGOT J ONE. OH YOU'RE RIGHT I SKIPPED J ONE.

NO WE WERE JUST ON I ONE BECAUSE I WAS OKAY. MY APOLOGIES.

WE'LL GO TO J ONE WHICH IS THE PRESENTATION FROM STAFF.

OKAY. READY? OKAY. GOOD EVENING AGAIN. COMMISSION MEMBERS.

WE ARE I'M HERE TO PRESENT OUR Q1 FISCAL YEAR.

2526 FINANCIAL REPORTING. THIS IS REVERTING BACK TO THE FORMAT THAT WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED FOR THE PAST ABOUT TWO YEARS. I THINK SINCE I STARTED. AND WHAT WE ARE DOING IS COMPARING Q1 OF THIS YEAR TO Q1 OF THE PRIOR YEAR SO WE CAN PROPERLY ASSESS TRENDS. I ALSO INCLUDED FY 23-24 ON HERE BECAUSE WE HAD THAT DATA AS WELL.

[00:50:03]

SO WE'LL START OUT WITH OUR GENERAL FUND REVENUES.

AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE THE BUDGET ACTUALS AND PERCENT RECEIVED.

SO AT A HIGH LEVEL WE'RE TRACKING ABOUT THE SAME AS LAST AS LAST YEAR, THE PRIOR TWO YEARS.

I CAN POINT OUT A COUPLE ITEMS AND I'LL GO THROUGH IT IN THE FOLLOWING SLIDES.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ITEM FOR US HERE IS OUR PROPERTY TAX, WHICH IS COMING IN AT THE SAME RATE, ABOUT THE SAME. IT'S SLIGHTLY HIGHER. YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT THE ROUNDING HERE.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN OUR PRIOR YEAR. WE ALSO HAD A MEETING RECENTLY WITH OUR PROPERTY TAX CONSULTANT WHO HAS CONFIRMED THEIR REVENUE ESTIMATES FOR OUR CURRENT FISCAL YEAR CORRESPONDING TO OUR BUDGET, WHICH IS GREAT NEWS FOR US.

SALES TAX IS A BIT HIGHER. OUR PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX, WHICH IS OUR THE TAX INCREMENT THE CITY RECEIVES WITH PROPERTY SALES COMING IN A LITTLE HIGHER THAN LAST YEAR. OVERALL, THAT'S DOING A LITTLE BETTER THAN WE ANTICIPATED.

SO THAT'S GOOD NEWS. SALES TAX IS A BIT HIGHER.

AND AGAIN, WE'VE MET WITH OUR CONSULTANT WHO HAS CONFIRMED SO FAR.

THEY'RE. YES. GO AHEAD. SO SORRY FOR BEING SLOW.

I DIDN'T QUITE SEE WHEN YOU SAID THE SALES TAX.

WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING TO AS IT BEING HIGHER THAN THE PREVIOUS YEAR? WHICH NUMBER ARE YOU LOOKING AT? OH. YOU ARE RIGHT.

IT MUST BE SLIGHTLY HIGHER IN MY. IT'S JUST ROUNDING THEN.

YEAH, IT'S JUST ROUNDING. IT'S JUST ROUNDING.

YEAH. SORRY. I'M LOOKING AT IT AT THE PERCENTAGE AND THE I THINK MY NEXT SLIDE MAY HAVE THE ACTUAL NUMBER.

SO MAY NOT MAY NOT BE A VERY, VERY GOOD OBSERVATION.

OH YEAH. I USUALLY DO MY SUBTRACTION FROM THE WHOLE NUMBERS.

BUT OVERALL I WON'T GO THROUGH THESE LINE BY LINE.

WE'RE ABOUT ON TRACK WITH THE PRIOR YEAR. SO YOU'RE COMPARING ON THIS SLIDE YOU'RE COMPARING WE'LL USE SALES TAX AS AN EXAMPLE WHEN YOU SAY IT'S HIGHER WHICH COLUMN YOU'RE COMPARING THE.

SO WHAT. GREEN TO THE GREEN TO THE BLUE WHICH IS OUR 25-26 ACTUALS COMPARED TO OUR 24-25 ACTUALS.

WHAT COMMISSIONER RAMCHARAN JUST POINTED OUT TO ME IS THAT IN THE ROUNDING, THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

OKAY. SO THAT WAS AND I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS ROUNDING BECAUSE.

YES. SO IT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT IT IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT.

NO, IT IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT. THE ONLY ITEM HERE THAT'S YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE LAST YEAR IN TERMS OF PERCENTAGE RECEIVED IS OUR PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX, AS I SAID. SO BASICALLY WE ARE ON TRACK WITH PRIOR YEAR.

WE ARE BROADLY ON TRACK WITH THE BUDGET. OUR TOT IS SLIGHTLY BELOW THE PERCENT WE THE PERCENT RECEIVED LAST YEAR. THIS DOES WE THIS DOES INCLUDE, I THINK, FOUR MISSING PAYMENTS WHICH WE HAVE JUST RECEIVED. SO WHEN WE INCLUDE THOSE WE WILL BE ABOUT ON TRACK.

BUT AGAIN THIS IS THE MAJOR ITEM THAT WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW CLOSELY AS WE GO THROUGH THE YEAR.

YEAH. AND I GUESS ONE MORE THING. STEPHANIE. SO IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WE'VE HAD A FAIR BIT OF INFLATION.

BUT THEN IF YOU LOOK AT TOTAL TAXES 23-24 IS 5.5 MILLION.

AND THEN IN, IN 25, 26 IT'S COMING IN AT 5.7.

SO IT'S ROUGHLY THE SAME, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE REVENUE BASE HAS PROBABLY BEEN INFLATED A LITTLE BIT.

SO THAT IS A GREAT OBSERVATION. AND MOST ALMOST ALL OF OUR MAJOR TAX SOURCES THAT YOU SEE HERE HAVE REMAINED FLAT OR LARGELY FLAT OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS.

THE ONLY AREA WHERE WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY STRONG POSITIVE GROWTH IS OUR PROPERTY TAX.

YEAH. EVEN THE SALES TAX IS A RELATIVELY FLAT DESPITE THE 3% AND CHANGE GOING UP ON INFLATION.

EXACTLY. AND THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH PERFORMANCE KIND OF STATEWIDE, AT LEAST.

THEY'RE NATIONWIDE TRENDS IN THIS AREA FOR OUR CITY.

THE KIND OF ONGOING CHALLENGES WITH THE SOUTH BAY SOCIAL DISTRICT OR THE OLD GALLERIA SPOT HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE FOR THE CITY'S KIND OF SALES GROWTH SALES TAX GROWTH OPPORTUNITY.

BUT THAT'S. YES, THAT'S A VERY ACCURATE OBSERVATION.

OCTOBER WAS THE FIRST MONTH SINCE I THINK COVID THAT WE FINALLY SAW IN WITH THE RECENT DATA THAT SALES ONE,

[00:55:11]

YES, I CAN I CAN TALK YOU THROUGH. I CAN TALK YOU THROUGH.

WHAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THAT? SO MOVING ON TO THE NEXT CATEGORIES.

AGAIN, WE'RE ABOUT EVEN APART FROM OUR CHARGES FOR SERVICES.

SO THESE ARE LIKE OUR, OUR FEES LIKE OUR RECREATION FEES.

WE HAVE PARKING FEES. THE REASON FOR THIS, I'M DRILLING DOWN TO IT, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME UNPOSTED REVENUES THROUGH SEPTEMBER.

I THINK AS I'VE MENTIONED TO THIS COMMISSION, WE HAVE A FEW STAFFING CHALLENGES IN OUR DEPARTMENT, WHICH MEANS WE ARE CATCHING UP ON THIS FISCAL YEAR AFTER A LATE AUDIT.

SO I BELIEVE THAT MAKES UP THAT MAKES UP THE DIFFERENCE HERE.

AND OF COURSE, WE'LL CONTINUE TO WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR IT MOVING FORWARD.

YOU'LL SEE OUR OVERHEAD AND OUR TRANSFERS IN.

OVERHEAD WE JUST HAVEN'T ACTUALLY CHARGED OVERHEAD.

OVERHEAD IS THE REVENUE THAT WE CHARGE OURSELVES.

SO WE'RE GOING TO GET 100% OF IT BECAUSE WE CHARGE OURSELVES.

WE JUST INCLUDE IT TO, YOU KNOW, ADD UP TO THE TOTAL NUMBER.

BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOK IF YOU LOOK THROUGH. SO OUR TAXES TOTAL, WE'RE AT 7% IN ALL THE YEARS SHOWN HERE.

YOU SEE OUR NON-TAX TOTAL, WE ARE DOWN ABOUT 3% FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.

AND AGAIN, THE BIG DIFFERENCE THERE IS IN THE CHARGES FOR SERVICE, WHICH I EXPECT WILL MAKE UP WHEN WE'VE FINISHED POSTING ALL OF OUR REVENUE BECAUSE THE OTHERS ARE ON PACE. AND THEN IN THE REMAINING ITEMS, WE'VE GROUPED OUR SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUNDS, ENTERPRISE FUNDS, AND OUR OTHER FUNDS HERE.

THESE ARE A BIT MORE. THE REVENUE IS NOT AS CONSISTENT OR YOU KNOW, AS SUITABLE TO COMPARING FOR TRENDS YEAR OVER YEAR JUST BECAUSE THEY TEND TO INCLUDE KIND OF LARGER ONE TIME PROJECTS.

THE ONE EXCEPTION TO THAT IS OUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS.

THIS IS OUR TRANSIT FUND HARBOR TIDELANDS, HARBOR UPLANDS AND SEWER.

THESE FUNDS ARE RUN SOMEWHAT LIKE A BUSINESS.

WE CAN USE THOSE REVENUES ONLY FOR THOSE PURPOSES.

AND YOU'LL SEE THERE WE ARE ALSO DOWN SLIGHTLY FROM OUR PRIOR YEAR AT THIS POINT.

SO I'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO THIS DISCREPANCY. WE ARE MISSING SEVERAL PAYMENTS HERE IN OUR TIDELANDS AND UPLANDS LEASE REVENUE.

AND SO WE'LL ONCE WE RECEIVE ALL OF THIS YOU KNOW, WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR IT.

BUT THAT'S ANOTHER AREA WHERE THERE IS A SLIGHT DECREASE.

AND THEN OUR SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS AGAIN, THESE ARE INDIVIDUAL FUNDS SET ASIDE FOR SEPARATE PURPOSES.

THE LARGEST OF OUR SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS IS OUR INTERGOVERNMENTAL GRANTS FUND.

SO REVENUE IN THIS LARGE CATEGORY OFTEN REFLECTS JUST THE TIMING OF OUR GRANTS REIMBURSEMENTS.

SO WHAT COMMISSIONER JESTE, YOU'RE 100% CORRECT THAT OVERALL WE'RE SLIGHTLY BELOW OUR PRIOR YEAR AT THIS POINT, I BELIEVE, LOOKING INTO THIS, THIS IS MOSTLY DUE TO TIMING AND THEN THE DISCREPANCIES IN OUR OTHER FUNDS.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING SOMETHING WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT.

WELL, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, IF YOU SO THE BOTTOM LINE, THE TOTAL REVENUES, IT'S THE BUDGET FOR 2025, 2026 IS $233 MILLION. IF YOU DIVIDE IT BY 1.03, WHICH IS THE INFLATION RATE IN REAL TERMS, IT'S ABOUT 226 MILLION, WHICH PUTS IT AT BELOW, WELL BELOW WHAT IT WAS LAST YEAR.

AND IF YOU USED THE PREVIOUS YEAR AS THE BASE YEAR THE PROJECTION IS WELL BELOW WHAT IT WAS IN REAL TERMS FROM, LAST YEAR. SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT A CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO PROJECT THE REVENUE IN REAL TERMS TO BE MUCH LESS THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR, OR THAT WAS JUST NOT NOT SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WERE THINKING ABOUT.

SO THE WAY THAT WE GENERALLY PROJECT THE REVENUE, I MEAN, FOR THE GENERAL FUND, WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT OUR YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT OUR EXPERT OPINIONS, WE LOOK AT PRIOR YEAR PERFORMANCE AND ANY,

[01:00:05]

BUT SIMILAR FOR SOME OF OUR OTHER CHARGES FOR A LOT OF THE OTHER FUNDS, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE PROJECTS THAT WE FUND IN THAT YEAR AND OUR ANTICIPATED REIMBURSEMENTS. SO I GUESS TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IT WAS NOT A IT'S NOT A CONSCIOUS CHOICE. I'LL ALSO JUST NOTE THAT THE BUDGETS, IF YOU LOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, AT OUR DEBT SERVICE FUNDS, WHICH YOU'LL SEE IN THE 25-26 BUDGET IS 16.6 COMPARED TO 30.4.

SOME OF THESE ALSO DEPEND ON WHERE THE CITY BUDGETS, THESE EXPENSES YEAR OVER YEAR.

AND IT MAY ALSO DEPEND. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS, FOR EXAMPLE, IS 34 MILLION IN THE PRIOR YEAR, 31.8 THIS YEAR. SOME OF THOSE ARE JUST ONE TIME REFLECT ONE TIME COSTS THAT THE CITY DOESN'T ANTICIPATE ONGOING.

SO WE REALLY BUDGET BASED ON OPERATIONS. AND YOU KNOW WHAT WE ANTICIPATE THE REVENUES TO BE.

THANK YOU. TO SUMMARIZE THIS PAGE, THE REVENUES FOR Q1, THEY'RE NOT SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER, BUT THEY'RE TINY BIT LOWER THAN WHAT I WOULD EXPECT. YEAH, I WOULD SAY THEY'RE WITHIN KIND OF ON PACE WITH WHAT WE'VE PROJECTED FOR BUDGET.

AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'LL CONTINUE TO WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THEM CLOSELY.

THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. SO I MAY JUST SKIP THESE SLIDES.

I GOT THROUGH THE. YEAH, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.

SO I MAY JUST SKIP THESE. I'LL JUST POINT OUT FOR OUR I THINK I JUST SAID THIS, ACTUALLY, OUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS WE WILL LOOK AT THESE CLOSELY.

WE'RE MISSING A FEW PAYMENTS, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW UP ON THOSE ITEMS. THESE ARE JUST SLIDES SHOWING THE EXACT SAME THING IN KIND OF A DIFFERENT FORMAT, JUST SHOWING PERCENTAGE RECEIVED.

AND I JUST USE THE PRIOR TWO YEARS HERE. THIS JUST SHOWS IN A GRAPHICAL FORMAT.

AND THEN THIS IS THE SAME THING, BUT BROKEN DOWN BY BY FUND TYPE.

AND AGAIN USUALLY YOU WILL SEE, OR YOU MAY END UP SEEING KIND OF A GREATER DISCREPANCY YEAR OVER YEAR FOR THE OTHER FUNDS, JUST BASED ON THE TYPE OF REVENUES THAT WE HAVE HERE.

SO MOVING ON TO EXPENDITURES AGAIN, WE ARE FOR THE GENERAL FUND.

WE ARE ROUGHLY OR WE ARE ALMOST EXACTLY ON PERCENTAGE TERMS IN LINE WITH THE PRIOR YEAR.

THE TOTAL AMOUNT WE'VE SPENT IS HIGHER, WHICH WE WOULD HAVE ANTICIPATED BASED ON LARGELY PERSONNEL INCREASES, IF YOU WILL. YOU CAN COMPARE KIND OF YEAR OVER YEAR IN BUDGET.

I'M TRYING TO THINK IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE OUTSTANDING I SHOULD POINT OUT HERE. AND AGAIN, YOU CAN KIND OF LOOK AT THE DISCREPANCIES IN THE BUDGET BETWEEN 24-25 AND 25-26.

AS COMMISSIONER RAMCHARAN POINTED OUT, THERE ARE SOME DECREASES.

AND THIS LARGELY JUST REFLECTS THE PROJECTS THAT WE INCLUDE IN EACH OF THESE FUNDS, WHICH WILL DIFFER FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

I'LL ALSO NOTE THAT THIS DOESN'T INCLUDE CARRYOVER.

SO ONCE WE DO OUR CARRYOVER, THAT'S TO TAKE OUR UNSPENT BUT PROGRAMED CAPITAL AND GRANT FUNDS FROM THE PRIOR YEAR AND MOVE IT INTO THE NEXT YEAR. SO THOSE WILL THAT WILL INCREASE THE BUDGET.

SO THESE ARE JUST OUR NEW APPROPRIATIONS FOR 25-26.

AND AGAIN, FOR OUR PERSONNEL COSTS, I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING I BROUGHT UP OVER, YOU KNOW, THE REPORTS IN 24, 25. AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT COUNCIL HAS APPROVED MOU INCREASES SEVERAL OF THESE IN THE LAST 2 TO 3 YEARS. AND I THINK THIS YEAR IS WHEN WE'LL KIND OF START TO SEE THE FULL IMPACT OF ALL OF THOSE.

SO WE'LL AGAIN CONTINUE TO MONITOR CLOSELY AND JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE TRACKING WITH THE BUDGET.

SO JUST TO ASK YOU A QUESTION. SURE. I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THIS AT ALL.

SO JUST TO GET YOUR PERSPECTIVE. SO PERSONNEL EXPENSES ARE NOW AM I SEEING IT PROPERLY? THE 49.98 IT'S THAT'S THE DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT'S BEING SPENT ON PERSONNEL.

OKAY. I'M SORRY I MISINTERPRETED THAT TO BE SOMETHING ELSE, I APOLOGIZE.

[01:05:04]

AGAIN, JUST FOR THE GENERAL FUND. THEY'RE BROKEN OUT THERE.

YEAH. SO AGAIN, THIS KIND OF JUST DESCRIBES. IF I COULD OH, YEAH OF COURSE.

IF YOU COULD JUST GO BACK ONE MORE SLIDE. YEAH PLEASE. JUST TO TAKE ONE MORE QUICK LOOK AT IT.

SO YEAH, YOUR, YOUR PERSONNEL COSTS IN REAL TERMS IS ALSO FLAT, RIGHT.

IT'S NOT GROWING. SO SO THERE'S NO I MEAN, MY QUICK TAKE ON THIS IS THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO INDICATE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF EXTRAORDINARY SPENDING THAT'S HAPPENING. AS IN, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THAT THE BUDGET IS GROWING FAST AND IT'S IN AN UNCONTROLLED STATE. IT SEEMS TO BE RELATIVELY CONSTANT. SO I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN MY POSITION IN MY YOU KNOW, EVENINGS OF ANXIETY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF CITY FINANCES.

WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IS A PROJECTION WHERE I CAN FULLY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE YOU KNOW, KIND OF ESPECIALLY THE PERSONNEL COSTS, COST INCREASES THAT HAVE OCCURRED OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS.

AND LOOK AT THAT AVERAGE GROWTH WITH OUR REVENUES, WHERE WE EXPECT OUR REVENUES TO GO TO YOU KNOW, GIVE, GIVE ME A BIT MORE PEACE OF MIND BECAUSE I THINK THE PAST FEW YEARS THERE'S BEEN SOME UP AND DOWN.

SO AGAIN, I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT. AND I THINK THAT REDONDO BEACH IS VERY FORTUNATE THAT THAT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE, YOU KNOW, SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL. AND, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO WATCH IT.

WELL, I GUESS IT MIGHT BE USEFUL AS WELL TO BENCHMARK IT TO TOWNS OF SIMILAR SIZES.

AND JUST TO SEE, ON A PER CAPITA BASIS, HOW MUCH DO WE SPEND ON PERSONNEL AND FRINGE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T FALL BEHIND OR THAT WE DON'T GO WAY, WAY TOO FAR AHEAD. AND I THINK I THINK TO YOUR POINT WHAT THE CITY HAS BEEN DOING IN THE PAST FEW YEARS IS CATCHING UP A LITTLE BIT TO SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORING CITIES. THE ADJUSTMENTS THAT I MENTIONED ARE RELATED TO SALARY STUDIES.

SO. BUT YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S A GREAT POINT. FOR PERSONNEL YOU FORECAST THE FORECAST INCLUDES THE VACANCIES HERE, RIGHT. IT. OR IS IT PERCENTAGE OF VACANCIES. IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF VACANCIES.

YES. IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF VACANCIES. SO IN GOVERNMENT THE BUDGET IT'S COMPARED TO PRIVATE SECTOR IT'S SUPER BORING AND EASY BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY YOU LOOK WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR AND THEN YOU REPEAT NOTHING THAT MUCH CHANGES RIGHT.

RIGHT I MEAN YOU KNOW THEY HAVE 300 EMPLOYEES.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ADD ANY MORE. WE ALREADY HAVE THREE.

SO IT'S THAT'S WHY IT'S CONSTANT. BECAUSE IT JUST SAME OLD, SAME OLD.

EVERYTHING IS THE SAME WAY. I MEAN, WE DO INCLUDE PROJECTIONS FOR, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL INCREASES THAT WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE NEXT YEAR.

SALARY INCREASES, MERIT INCREASES. WE ADJUST THE RATES FOR OUR NEW CALPERS RATES, HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE OTHER. BUT IT'S NOT LIKE YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT NOT GET A PROJECT AND YOU HAVE TO LAY OFF SOME STAFF BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET THE PROJECT OR YOU GOT A NEW PROJECT.

NOW YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHO'S GOING TO DO THAT. SO THERE'S NONE OF THAT HERE. YEAH.

IT'S JUST OKAY. DO THEY GET RAISES? AND THE RAISES ARE ALL IN MOU'S.

IT'S. YEAH, YEAH. THIS BASICALLY RESTATES WHAT WE JUST LOOKED AT.

WE DON'T NEED TO SPEND TIME ON IT. THE ONLY, I GUESS THE ONLY OTHER THING I SAID HERE IS THAT OUR CONTRACTS AND SERVICES SPENDING IS SLIGHTLY BEHIND PRIOR YEAR. AND AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE OUR SPENDING DEPENDS A LITTLE BIT ON THE PROJECTS, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE BUDGET FOR A CERTAIN CONTRACTS WE EXPECT TO SPEND THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, AND THOSE CAN DIFFER FROM YEAR TO YEAR. OTHER SPENDING AGAIN IN OTHER FUNDS.

IT'S ABOUT THE SAME. WE DID HAVE INCREASES IN THE BUDGETS FOR AND SPENDING FOR OUR INTERNAL SERVICE FUNDS.

AGAIN, A LOT OF THIS IS PROJECT TIMING. IN OUR SELF-INSURANCE FUND, FOR EXAMPLE, WE PAY THE CITY'S PREMIUMS AT THE START OF THE YEAR.

SO WE'LL SHOW A LARGE PERCENT OF THE BUDGET USED AT THE START OF THE YEAR.

AND IN OUR IT FUND AND VEHICLE REPLACEMENT FUND, WE DON'T WE JUST BUDGET FOR ONE YEAR OF COSTS, AND A LARGE PORTION OF THAT WILL BE IN THE CARRYOVER.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE BUDGET IS SPENT NOW, BUT THE TOTAL BUDGET WILL COME WITH OUR CARRYOVER.

AND JUST TO ASK YOU AS WELL IS HEALTHCARE COSTS SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK ABOUT OR WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT IN SOME WAY BECAUSE THAT COULD BE CHANGING AT SOME POINT AND IS THAT? YES SO THE CITY HAS A CONTRACT WITH CALPERS FOR TO PROVIDE MEDICAL BENEFITS.

[01:10:08]

IT DEPENDS ON THE PLAN, BUT I THINK THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLAN INCREASED BY ALMOST 30% LAST YEAR.

I SEE. SO AGAIN, I HAVE THIS I HAVE THIS IN OUR FORECAST, THE PERCENT INCREASE OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.

BUT YES, DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE LOOK AT. AND DO YOU LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE EMPLOYEES IN THE CITY TO TRY TO PREDICT HOW THE CHANGING HEALTHCARE COSTS AND PENSION COSTS COULD AFFECT THE CITY COMPARED TO OTHERS? SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY GET INTO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL .

OKAY. OUR ACTUARIAL REPORT FROM CALPERS AND OUR ACTUARIAL REPORT FOR THE CITY'S LONG TERM MEDICAL BENEFITS, WHICH ARE OTHER POST-EMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, GET VERY FAR INTO THAT DETAIL.

SO, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE ALL THEIR ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT MORTALITY AND LONGEVITY, ALL THESE THINGS.

SO THOSE ARE IN THEIR REPORTS AND THAT AFFECTS WHAT THE CITY CONTRIBUTES FOR THOSE ITEMS. BUT FOR OUR CITY, NO, WE DON'T WE DON'T GET INTO THAT LEVEL OF, OF DETAIL.

SO WE ESSENTIALLY BUDGET FOR BASED WE BUDGET BASED ON OUR PREMIUMS AND BASED ON WHAT THE CITY PROVIDES EMPLOYEES.

AND THEN MOVING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK AT PROJECTIONS YOU KNOW, SO I GUESS THE, THE MOTIVATION FOR THE QUESTION IS GOING BACK TO THE DEFICIT AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAD THE ONE TIME PAYMENT THAT WAS UNEXPECTED.

AND SO I WAS WONDERING IF PEOPLE LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE THE CITY EMPLOYEES, COULD THEY THEN PREDICT WITH MORE CERTAINTY IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 20% OF PEOPLE BE 65 OR 66, AND COSTS ARE GOING TO CHANGE. SO COULD YOU BEGIN TO PREDICT MORE CAREFULLY OR PRECISELY WHEN, WHEN THERE'LL BE A BULK AND A SHIFT IN COSTS THAT'S COMING? IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE OR NOT WORTHWHILE? IT MIGHT BE.

I MEAN, SOMETHING WE COULD LOOK INTO. I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT'S WHERE THE, YOU KNOW, LARGE, UNEXPECTED MAJORITY OF OUR COSTS WILL COME FROM.

I THINK, HONESTLY, THAT'S FROM OUR, YOU KNOW, ANNUAL ONE TIME LARGE BILL FROM CALPERS.

GOT IT. AND AGAIN, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT CALPERS IS LOOKING AT.

AND WE ACTUALLY PROJECT SOME LONGER TERM BENEFIT FOR THE CITY IN THAT EACH YEAR MORE AND MORE CITY EMPLOYEES ARE IN OUR PEPRA OR OUR THIRD TIER RETIREMENT PLAN WHICH IS MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE FOR THE CITY.

THE EMPLOYEE CONTRIBUTES MORE AND THE BENEFITS ARE LOWER.

SO TO THE EXTENT THAT THAT IMPACTS OUR LONG TERM COSTS, THAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR THE CITY IN TERMS OF OUR DEMOGRAPHICS.

AND AGAIN, WE JUST HAVE THE SAME KIND OF COMPARATIVE BAR CHARTS ON THIS SIDE.

WE HAD A VERY LOW BUDGET FOR CAPITAL OUTLAY. AND I THINK WE SPENT YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WAS $20,000.

WE SPENT $40,000. [LAUGHTER]. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT, THAT 104% THERE.

BUT AGAIN, THIS SHOWS WE'RE ROUGHLY CONSISTENT WITH PRIOR YEARS WITH OUR EQUIPMENT AND CONTRACTS, INCLUDING SOME ONE TIME PURCHASES THAT TEND TO DISTORT IT SLIGHTLY.

AND THEN AGAIN, THIS IS THE SAME EXCEPT FOR OUR OTHER FUNDS.

AND YOU CAN SEE HERE SO WE ALSO INCLUDE OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUNDS WHERE WE BUDGET FOR AND SPEND OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS.

AND WHAT THIS WOULD SHOW US IS JUST THAT WE ARE SPENDING MORE OF OUR CAPITAL FUNDS IN OUR FIRST QUARTER COMPARED TO THE PRIOR YEAR, WHICH IF YOU ARE A RESIDENT OR CITY COUNCIL, YOU PROBABLY APPRECIATE BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING PROJECTS DONE.

WE'VE ALSO ADDED THE SPENDING BY DEPARTMENT. I INCLUDED ALL FUNDS FOR THIS JUST TO GIVE KIND OF A BETTER PICTURE.

IT IS ACTUALLY VERY INTERESTING TO LOOK AT ALL FUNDS BECAUSE SOME NUMBERS KIND OF IMMEDIATELY JUMP OUT AT YOU.

I DID INCLUDE SOME NOTES FOR THESE TO EXPLAIN THIS.

AND I'LL ALSO JUST NOTE THESE ARE ALL OUR DEPARTMENTS, SO IT DOES NOT INCLUDE CAPITAL AND IT DOESN'T INCLUDE OUR NON-DEPARTMENTAL EXPENSES, WHICH ARE THEY'RE LIKE OUR, OUR TRANSFERS WHICH INCLUDE OUR, OUR BOND PAYMENTS BECAUSE WE BUDGET FOR THOSE OUTSIDE OF THE DEPARTMENT BUDGETS.

SO THIS REFLECTS ONLY CITY OPERATIONS. AND I JUST NOTED, NOTED A FEW ITEMS ON HERE, HUMAN RESOURCES BECAUSE IT INCLUDES THE SELF-INSURANCE FUND DOES INCLUDE THOSE UPFRONT INSURANCE PAYMENTS, WHICH IS WHY THEIR NUMBER LOOKS SO HIGH FOR PERCENT SPENT AT THE MOMENT.

[01:15:06]

WE ALSO HAVE A COUPLE DEPARTMENTS WITH VERY LOW SPENDING OUR CITY TREASURER'S OFFICE, AGAIN, IT'S A SMALL OFFICE. IT'S A TWO PERSON OFFICE.

THEY HAVE ONE VACANCY AND MOST OF THEIR SPENDING IS LATER IN THE YEAR.

AND THEN OUR WATERFRONT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, A LOT OF THAT BECAUSE IT INCLUDES THE HARBOR, OUR INTERNAL SERVICE CHARGES, WHICH WE HAVEN'T POSTED AT THIS POINT.

SO JUST TO ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THE POLICE AND FIRE.

SURE. IS THE SPENDING OR IS THE BUDGET THAT WE HAVE FOR POLICE AND FIRE.

IS THAT COMPARABLE TO THE OTHER TOWNS IN TERMS OF.

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, AND I HAVE NOT BENCHMARKED THAT, AND I SHOULD DO THAT.

I WOULD EXPECT THAT IT'S COMPARABLE. OKAY. I WOULD EXPECT IT'S COMPARABLE OR POTENTIALLY ON THE LOW SIDE JUST BECAUSE AGAIN, ESPECIALLY FOR SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, HIGHER, HIGHER COST CITIES AROUND US.

BUT I HAVE TO SAY, I'M NOT CLOSELY FAMILIAR WITH YOU KNOW, THEIR SALARIES AND THEIR BENEFITS.

SO I'D HAVE TO REVIEW THAT OUR POLICE AND FIRE DO BOTH INCLUDE SOME HARBOR SPENDING.

SO IN THAT WAY, THEY ACTUALLY MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN SOME OTHER CITIES THAT DON'T SUPPORT A HARBOR.

I SEE, I GUESS IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL BOTH TO SEE IT AS A PERCENT OF THE TOTAL EXPENDITURES AND ALSO ON A PER CAPITA BASIS.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD DO THIS. I'M JUST SAYING IF ONE IS THINKING ABOUT THE COMPARABILITY, THAT WOULD BE . TO LOOK AT TO LOOK AT. YEAH .

TO LOOK AT AS A, AS A PERCENT. ARE YOU SAYING PERCENT OF THE TOTAL CITY BUDGET AND ON A PER CAPITA.

YEAH . YEAH AND I EXPECT SOMEONE MAY HAVE LOOKED AT THIS ESPECIALLY FOR FIRE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD STUDIES ON THIS THE PAST FEW YEARS, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S GREAT. I'VE LOOKED AT IT BEFORE AND WE'RE ON A HIGHER SIDE THAN OTHER CITIES .

IT LOOKS A LITTLE HIGH. I MEAN JUST THE EYEBALL YEAH.

YEAH IT'S HIGHER THAN I WANT TO SAY ANY CITY I'VE LOOKED AT.

IT'S HIGHER BOTH EVEN JUST A DOLLAR VALUE IS HIGHER.

ANOTHER DOLLAR WHAT PERCENTAGE WE SPENT OF OUR BUDGET ON POLICE .

ON THE POLICE AND FIRE YEAH, YEAH. YEAH BUT AGAIN OUR POLICE AND FIRE DEPARTMENTS DO INCLUDE SPENDING IN THE TIDELANDS AND UPLANDS.

WE ALSO HAVE AN EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS FUND.

SO WE WOULD WANT TO MAYBE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, GENERAL FUND TO GENERAL FUND, TOO.

I SEE YES. BUT ALSO THIS IS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS.

THIS IS KIND OF THE ASK OF THE COMMUNITY. AND AGAIN I HAVE ONE SLIDE FOR EACH DEPARTMENT THAT JUST GOES INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL AND THAT IT BREAKS IT DOWN BY CATEGORY. I MAY NOT GO INTO EACH ONE OF THESE IN DETAIL UNLESS ANYONE HAD A SPECIFIC QUESTION.

BUT I CAN JUST KIND OF FLIP THROUGH THESE CITY ATTORNEY, CITY MANAGER, IT AND YOU CAN SEE SOME DEPARTMENTS HAVE MORE, MORE CATEGORIES THAN OTHERS.

YEAH. BECAUSE THEY JUST HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF EXPENSES.

AND THESE TEND TO BE THE DEPARTMENTS WITH EITHER LARGER OPERATIONS OR MORE, MORE FUNDING SOURCES.

SO FOR AGAIN, FOR POLICE AND POLICE AND FIRE, I GUESS I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANYTHING VERY INTERESTING YOU CAN SEE.

I'LL JUST POINT OUT POLICE AND FIRE HAVE THIS LAST ITEM, 57, CALLED POB DEBT.

THE REASON THIS ITEM APPEARS IN THE POLICE AND FIRE DEPARTMENT IS, AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY HAVE ENTERPRISE FUNDS, AND THOSE ENTERPRISE FUNDS CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS THE CITY'S PAYMENT OF OUR LEASE REVENUE BONDS THAT REFUNDED THE PENSION DEBT.

SO WE THOSE FUNDS CONTRIBUTE IN THE SAME PERCENTAGE OF THE PENSION LIABILITY BELONGING TO THAT FUND.

AT THE TIME THAT WE ISSUED THE BONDS. WHAT IS THE CURRENT PERSONNEL VACANCY? I MEAN, I'D HAVE TO RUN IT, I DON'T KNOW, AS OF TODAY'S DATE.

WE DID LOOK AT THIS WHEN WE WERE DOING THE BUDGET.

AND IT RANGES USUALLY ON ANY GIVEN DAY FROM 7% TO 12-15%.

OKAY, SO YOU GUYS ARE IN GOOD SHAPE. YEAH, WE'VE BEEN BETTER STAFFED, I THINK, THE PAST YEAR THAN WE HAVE BEEN IN IN MANY, MANY YEARS, WHICH IS WONDERFUL FOR US IN THE CITY AND ALSO RESULTS IN USUALLY FEWER SALARY SAVINGS BECAUSE WE'RE TEND TO BE HIGHER STAFFED.

[01:20:12]

AND HERE'S OUR WATERFRONT, WHERE YOU CAN TELL THE INTERNAL SERVICE CHARGES HERE ARE VERY HIGH COMPARED TO THE REMAINDER OF THE BUDGET.

IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE, QUITE A SMALL BUDGET FOR ALL THE OTHER ITEMS. AND THOSE ARE ALL MY SLIDES. SO I THINK IN SUMMARY, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE CAUTIOUSLY FINE ON REVENUE. WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING REALLY GREAT, AND I DON'T THINK WE SEE ANY REALLY STRONG CAUSE FOR CONCERN.

AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR IT. NO RED FLAGS.

ANY, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, SUGGESTIONS? COMMENTS? WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? I DIDN'T I DIDN'T MENTION IN THE PRESENTATION, BUT I DID ALSO INCLUDE FOR YOUR REFERENCE OUR CAPITAL REPORT THROUGH THE SAME MONTHS OF THE YEAR. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE COMMISSION HAD REQUESTED BEFORE, AND IT'S JUST A REPORT BY PROJECT BY FUND. IT SHOWS ALL THE PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE APPROPRIATED THIS YEAR, ALL THE NEW ONES WITH OUR SPENDING TO DATE. WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT AND FILE THE QUARTERLY REPORT? I GUESS I SECOND THAT MOTION. MOTION I ASKED IF THERE'S A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE MOTION RECEIVED.

THIS IS THE EXPERT. AND THEN SECOND. AND I SECOND THE MOTION .

ALL RIGHTY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED. ALL RIGHT. NOW WE CAN GO TO ITEM J.2.

WE DO NEED TO ASK FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION . ANY COMMENTS? BEFORE BEFORE I WAS SUPPOSED TO ASK ANY COMMENTS.

I NEVER DO THAT. ALL RIGHT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT.

YES MY EXPERIENCE ANALYZING EXPENSES EACH QUARTER.

EACH YEAR'S QUARTER IS DIFFERENT FROM THE SAME QUARTER OF THE PRIOR YEAR.

EACH QUARTER SHOULD HAVE ITS OWN BUDGET TO COMPARE WITH ACTUALS.

CORPORATIONS DO THIS WHEN THEY REPORT EARNINGS.

A COMPANY CAN KNOW IF THEY ARE ON TRACK WITH EXPECTATIONS FOR THE CURRENT YEAR, OR HAVE TO ADJUST TO BE ABLE TO MEET ANNUAL BUDGET.

DOES THE CITY HAVE A CURRENT YEAR QUARTERLY BUDGET TO COMPARE TO ACTUALS? COMPARING PERCENTS OF EXPENDITURES FOR THE CURRENT QUARTER WITH PERCENT OF EXPENDITURES FOR THE PRIOR YEAR QUARTER AND ASSUMING YOU ARE OKAY IF THE YEAR'S EXPENDITURES FOR THE PRIOR YEAR ARE THE SAME AS LAST YEAR'S, IS A LESS VALID MEASURE OF BEING ON TRACK TO MEET YOUR CURRENT BUDGET PLAN.

THE CITY SHOULD HAVE A CURRENT YEAR QUARTERLY BUDGET TO USE FOR COMPARISON WITH ACTUAL EXPENSES.

OTHER QUESTIONS. THE PERCENT OF TOTAL REVENUE RECEIVED IN THE FIRST QUARTER DROPPED FROM 13% IN 2024 TO 8% IN 2026. WHY? WAS THE DROP EXPECTED? WILL THIS BE A PROBLEM? BETWEEN 2023-24 AND 2025-26 THE PERCENT OF TOTAL TAXES RECEIVED IN THE FIRST QUARTER WAS EXACTLY THE SAME 7%, BUT THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE VARIATION WITHIN THE CATEGORIES.

PROPERTY TRANSFER TAXES AHEAD OF THE PRIOR YEARS, BUT TOT IS CONSIDERABLY BEHIND 16% TO 23%.

BUSINESS LICENSE TAX 21% VERSUS 19%. WILL THOSE DIFFERENCES DISAPPEAR OVER THE REST OF THE YEAR? SWITCHING TO EXPENSES FOR THIS YEAR VERSUS LAST YEAR.

GENERAL FUND THE EQUIPMENT M&O 40% VERSUS 23%.

WAS THE GREATER M&O SPENDING A SURPRISE? HOW WILL FUTURE QUARTERS BE AFFECTED? AND ALL FUNDS. CAPITAL OUTLAY 104% VERSUS 10% A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

WHY? THE CIP 28% VERSUS 10% ANOTHER HUGE DIFFERENCE.

OUR PROJECTS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. OR WAS THERE A SURPRISE EXPENSE? INTERNAL SERVICE 34% VERSUS 25%. DO THESE VARIANCES NEED TO BE EXPLAINED? IF MEASURING EACH QUARTER BY ITS PERCENT OF THE YEAR'S TOTAL ONE MIGHT EXPECT A MEAN REVENUE AND OVERALL SPENDING RATE OF 25% PER CHAIR ALLEN'S STATEMENT THAT NOTHING CHANGES FOR Q1, BUT THE OVERALL RATE IS ONLY 8% FOR REVENUES AND 16% FOR EXPENSES.

CONSIDERABLE VARIANCE IN SPENDING RATES PER DEPARTMENT WITH 16% OR LESS FOR THE POLICE, FIRE, LIBRARY, COMMUNITY SERVICES, TREASURER, CLERK, ATTORNEY, AND MAYOR.

[01:25:05]

HOW CAN THE COMMISSION BE ASSURED AND ASSURE THE COUNCIL THAT THE CITY IS ON TRACK TO MEET THE YEAR'S BUDGET? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO WHAT YOU JUST HEARD, ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS? WE WANT TO LOOK AT ANY OF THE SLIDES? I THINK ONE COMMITTEE MADE THAT WAS THE SAME THING I THING I HAD QUESTIONED THAT THE OVERALL REVENUES WERE DOWN 8% COMPARED TO 9% LAST YEAR AND 13% TWO YEARS AGO. SO I THINK THE SUGGESTION FOR HAVING A QUARTERLY BUDGET AND THEN COMPARING THE ACTUAL VERSUS BUDGET, I THINK THAT CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE.

WELL, IF I COULD ASK YOU, COULD WE JUST BRIEFLY LOOK AT THE FIRST SLIDE AGAIN ON THE REVENUES JUST TO CONFIRM WHAT THE COMMENT WAS AND.

I WAS NOT FOLLOWING WHEN I HEARD THE. WE CAN ASK HIM WHAT IT WAS? BECAUSE I CAN'T REMEMBER IT BUT I AM CURIOUS.

WELL, IT SEEMS THAT TAXES ARE 7% OF THE FISCAL YEAR RECEIVED IN FIRST QUARTER, WHICH IS CONSTANT FOR THE LAST FOR 2023-24, 2024-25, 2025-26.

NON-TAX REVENUE SOURCES ARE SUBSTANTIALLY, WELL SIGNIFICANTLY BELOW WHERE IT WAS FROM LAST YEAR AND WHERE IT WAS FROM 2023-24. WHICH IS COMING FOR THE GF CHARGES FOR SERVICES PRIMARILY. SO THAT'S THE BIG OUTLIER, RIGHT? AND I THINK YOU DISCUSSED, BUT IF YOU COULD REFRESH YOUR MEMORY JUST BRIEFLY, AGAIN, I THINK YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT THIS.

SURE YES THIS IS THE ONE ITEM THAT WE NOTED THAT IS A REAL DISCREPANCY FROM THE PRIOR YEAR.

AND AGAIN THIS I AM ABOUT 99% CERTAIN IS BECAUSE WE ARE BEHIND ON OUR REVENUE POSTING.

SO WHEN THE CITY RECEIVES REVENUE, IT COMES INTO THE BANK.

BUT WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFY WHAT IT IS AND POST IT TO OUR FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

AND WE ARE CATCHING UP ON THAT AT THE MOMENT.

SO THIS PARTICULARLY IMPACTS OUR CHARGES FOR SERVICES BECAUSE WE GET THOSE ARE LARGELY CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS THAT ARE AGAIN WERE RECORDED IN THE BANK.

BUT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH AND IDENTIFY THEM AND POST THEM APPROPRIATELY.

AND I WILL LOOK BACK AGAIN AT OUR 2023-24 BUDGET.

BUT IF YOU'LL NOTICE THE CHARGES FOR SERVICE BUDGET WAS ALSO MUCH LARGER IN 2023-24, WHICH CAUSES ME TO BELIEVE THERE WAS SOME ADDITIONAL ITEM IN THERE THAT WE ARE NOT INCLUDING MOVING FORWARD.

SO AGAIN, THERE IS A REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS YEAR AND THE PRIOR YEAR AT THIS POINT.

BUT I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT IS DUE TO THE NEED TO POST OUR ALL OUR REVENUES.

SO ONE THING THAT JIM MENTIONED IS WHAT I KIND OF WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT'S PRIVATE SECTOR VERSUS PUBLIC SECTOR, AND I WAS SAYING HOW IT'S MUCH EASIER IN PUBLIC SECTOR BECAUSE AND EXACTLY FOR WHAT HE SAID IN PUBLIC SECTOR, WE DON'T DO QUARTERLY BUDGETING. I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE I DON'T KNOW.

IS IT SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK WILL HELP? IT HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND IF THERE'S A SEASONALITY EFFECT, OR WAS IT PLANNED TO BE AT THIS LEVEL, OR IF YOU'RE BUDGETING TOT TO GROW BECAUSE THE HOTELS ARE GOING TO OPEN UP OR THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, THEN AT LEAST YOU HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHY IT'S LOWER.

SO THAT'S HELPFUL BUT I DON'T. YEAH, BUT THAT'S THE REASON WE USUALLY COMPARE IT TO THE FIRST QUARTER OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR BECAUSE NOTHING .

IS CONSISTENT. IT'S YEAH, SEASONALITY IS SOMETHING THAT'S HOW WE FORECAST THAT'S YEAH.

THAT'S WHY I SAY IT'S REALLY EASY IN IN GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THAT'S SEASONALITY STAYS THE SAME.

TAXES COME EXACTLY WHEN . TAX GETS COLLECTED TWICE A YEAR .

DECEMBER, IT'S DECEMBER JANUARY APRIL, MAY. IT'S EVERY SALES TAX IS ON A CERTAIN DAY.

[01:30:04]

THERE ISN'T THAT MUCH THAT'S DIFFERENT IN GOVERNMENT, IT'S WHEN THEY DO BUDGETS, THEY DO IT BASED ON MOST OF THE TIME BASED ON THE PREVIOUS YEAR. AND I'VE EVEN SEEN WHEN THEY STARTED DOING FROM ZERO AND IT ENDS UP BEING THE SAME THING BECAUSE WE PROVIDE THE SAME SERVICES.

WE KNOW POLICE DOESN'T CHANGE, RIGHT? A FIRE DOESN'T CHANGE.

AND THAT'S WHERE MOST OF OUR MONEY IS. THAT MAY BE TRUE FROM ONE QUARTER TO THE NEXT.

BUT IF YOU COMPARE THIS QUARTER WITH THE SIMILAR QUARTER LAST YEAR AND TWO YEARS AGO, THEN, THEN THE SAME . THAT'S WHAT SHE DID . APPLIED THIS YEAR WILL APPLY TO THE SAME QUARTER LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE .

SO YEAH, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT SHE DID. AND THIS IS REALLY VERY REVEALING.

AND I THINK IF YOUR CIP EXPENSES ARE SKYROCKETING AND THE REVENUES ARE GOING THE OTHER WAY, I THINK THAT RAISES A, AN ALARM AND SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT JUST LETTING THINGS GO AND THEN FIND OUT AT THE END OF THE YEAR THAT WE SPENT TOO MUCH MONEY ON CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS.

IF I CAN JUST SAY ONE THING ABOUT OVERSPENDING THE CAPITAL WITH THE REVENUE, I MEAN WE HAVE AN ESTABLISHED BUDGET FOR THE CAPITAL PROGRAM, AND WE'RE SPENDING WITHIN THAT BUDGET.

SO THE AMOUNT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO SPEND ON CAPITAL DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE AMOUNT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO BRING IN IN Q1, I GUESS, IS WHAT I'M SAYING. SO WE ARE DEFINITELY ALWAYS SPENDING WITHIN BUDGET ON CAPITAL BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GO OVER THAT BUDGET.

AND THEN THE DEBT SERVICE FUNDS, I'M LOOKING AT THE EXPENDITURE WHICH IS THE NEXT SLIDE I THINK.

SO AND AGAIN, THIS IS USUALLY BECAUSE WE ARE IN TROUBLE FOR.

SO WE MAKE WE HAVE TWO DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS.

BY AUGUST SEPTEMBER OKAY. AND THEN THAT'S THE ONE THAT WILL CHANGE THAT THAT'S THE ONE THAT WON'T NECESSARILY TRACK WITH THE PREVIOUS QUARTER BECAUSE THAT I THINK THAT FLUCTUATES HOW MUCH.

OUR DEBT SERVICE? YEAH. SO WE HAVE A DIFFERENT DEBT SERVICE SCHEDULE EVERY YEAR.

SO IT WILL BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE PRIOR YEAR. AND THEN WE HAVE TWO DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS.

ONE IS DUE IN OCTOBER AND ONE IS DUE IN MAY. YEAH.

SO THAT'S WHEN YOU'LL SEE THAT'S WHEN YOU'LL SEE THOSE PAYMENTS. ALL RIGHT.

CAN WE? WE ARE I THINK WE ALREADY APPROVED. THANK YOU STEPHANIE.

AND WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, CIP PROJECTS.

CIP PROJECTS REPORTED BY. OKAY IT'S 8:00. I WILL ASK THE COMMISSION IF THEY WANT TO SAVE THIS ITEM AND THE NEXT ITEM FOR NEXT TIME. OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO CONTINUE? IT'S UP TO YOU. WE CAN DO A QUICK REVIEW AND THEN.

OF THE CIP? OKAY. DISCUSS IT LATER. OKAY. SINCE STEPHANIE HAS PREPARED IT, WE MIGHT AS WELL TAKE A LOOK AT IT .

OKAY SO CAN WE OPEN THE CIP J.2? THE CIP REPORT THAT WAS THAT IT'S A BIG SPREADSHEET.

YEAH I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GOING TO SEE THIS, BECAUSE ALL THE BIG SCREEN WILL SHOW IT.

WOULD HAVE BEEN SO JESSE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB. INCLUDING IF YOU GO TO COLUMN, I'M GOING TO LOOK.

I LOVE THAT THEY HAVE TWO SCREENS. NOW THE COMMENT SECTION.

SO THAT'S Q SO HE DID HE GAVE REALLY GOOD EXPLANATIONS FOR EACH.

AND I WAS HOPING THAT WOULD PROBABLY ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS.

COMMISSIONER JESTE. NO? PLEASE REPEAT THAT [LAUGHTER].

OH SO IN COLUMN Q.

YEAH, YEAH. HE GIVES CONTEXT TO HOW . HE GAVE PRETTY, I THINK, GOOD DETAIL, SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING. I THINK STEPHANIE HAS THE COMPARISON THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT IN MY EMAIL TO YOU.

[01:35:02]

I WILL SAY THAT MY RESPONSES PRIMARILY REFER BACK TO THE SPREADSHEET BECAUSE, AS CHAIR ALLEN WAS SAYING, I THINK IT DOES CONTAIN A LOT OF THE INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SO .

SO THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE ADDED SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION? WELL, THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE SPREADSHEET, BUT WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO IS JUST KIND OF WALK THROUGH YOUR QUESTIONS.

CAN YOU REFER BACK TO THIS SPREADSHEET? THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES WITH SCREENSHOTS.

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT SPREADSHEETS TO LOOK AT THAT.

IT'S NOT ANOTHER SPREADSHEET. SO BUT IT'S GREAT TO HAVE THIS UP BECAUSE IT LINKS BACK TO HERE.

AND I WANTED TO DO THIS. I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M GIVING A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION, BUT I DID WANT TO LIST IT OUT IN THE HOPES OF BEING CLEAR AND, YOU KNOW, ANSWERING SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS.

SO, COMMISSIONER JESTE YOUR FIRST QUESTION WAS JUST KIND OF TO VERIFY WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THIS SHEET, WHICH, AS YOU STATED, YOU KNOW, THE FINAL APPROPRIATION IS SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER THAN THE INITIAL APPROPRIATION.

AND THAT IS CORRECT. SO I DID I DID VERIFY YOUR NUMBERS, AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

AND YOUR SECOND QUESTION WAS YOU WERE LOOKING FOR THE NUMBER OF ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATIONS FOR EACH BUDGET.

AND AGAIN, AS CHAIR ALLEN MENTIONED, THE COLUMN Q, WHICH WE LOOKED AT OR F THROUGH Q PROVIDE THE SUM OF THE ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATIONS.

AND THEN IN THIS COMMENT AREA JESSE HAS PROVIDED A SUMMARY OF WHAT LED TO EACH OF THESE WHAT LED TO THE CHANGES IN EACH OF THESE PROJECTS.

AND THEN YOU HAD ALSO ASKED WHICH AGAIN, I THINK IS A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, IF ALL THE APPROPRIATIONS WERE APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL.

AND IF NOT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS THE PROCESS? SO CITY COUNCIL APPROVES EVERY APPROPRIATION.

SO THERE'S IT'S EVERY APPROPRIATION, WHETHER CAPITAL OR OPERATING.

I CANNOT SPEND A SINGLE DOLLAR ABOVE THE COUNCIL IDENTIFIED THRESHOLD, WHICH IS DEPARTMENT AND FUND WITHOUT COUNCIL APPROVAL WHEN STAFF MAKES CHANGES USING CHANGE OR CHANGE ORDER AUTHORITY, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY TO SPEND OVER THE BID AMOUNTS OR THE CONTRACT AMOUNTS THAT IS WITHIN BUDGETED AMOUNTS.

SO IN NO CASE DO WE SPEND PAST COUNCIL APPROVAL.

NOT SHOW IN THE SPREADSHEET FOR EACH CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, HOW MUCH WAS ADDED IN EACH APPROPRIATION REQUEST AND HOW MUCH WAS SPENT.

SO. IT'S THERE. IN IN THE SPREADSHEET. HE EVEN I THINK, JESSE, I DON'T WANT TO GIVE CREDIT TO THE WRONG PERSON, BUT I THINK IT WAS JESSE WHO EVEN COLUMN Q R S T U V HE EVEN PUT LINKS TO THE DOCUMENTS THAT WERE USED. YEAH SO . JUST TO GO BACK AND FORTH, I THINK IT WOULD BE SIMPLER IF YOU JUST HAD UNDER EACH PROJECT ALL THE ITEMS LISTED THERE . THAT'S WHAT JESSE HAS. YEAH SO I PULLED UP AN EXAMPLE SO.

YEAH, THAT'S. YEAH, I KNEW THAT WAS GOING TO BE CONFUSING.

YES. WHEN YOU BROUGHT IN A PRESENTATION [LAUGHTER].

OH, IF YOU DO . IF SOMEONE IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE ME TO CLOSE THE PRESENTATION, I WILL SHUT IT DOWN.

IF YOU USE THE EXCEL FILE TO SHOW WHERE IT IS SO THAT COMMISSIONER KNOWS WHERE TO LOOK FOR IT.

THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. SO COLUMN Q HAS THE SUMMARY, AND THEN AS CHAIR ALLEN JUST SAID, THESE ARE ACTUALLY LINKS TO EACH ONE OF THE COUNCIL AGENDA ITEMS WHERE THIS HAS GONE TO COUNCIL AND COUNCIL HAS APPROVED IT.

SO THE ONLY THING THAT I DID IN MY PRESENTATION HERE WAS TO, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE TEXT.

AND THEN IF YOU FOLLOW THE LINKS, YOU CAN SEE THE CONTRACT AWARD.

AND THEN THE THE REPORT THAT I THINK PROVIDES A LOT OF THE INFORMATION YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS THE NOTICE OF COMPLETION.

AND IN THIS YOU'LL SEE FOR EXAMPLE, FROM THIS TEXT HERE THEY DISCUSS ALL OF THE CHANGE ORDERS AND THE AUTHORITY FOR THE CHANGE ORDERS.

SO AGAIN, I THINK THE REASON THAT JESSE AND THEIR ANALYST, WHOSE NAME IS JESSICA, WHO IS REALLY WONDERFUL INCLUDED THESE TOGETHER, IS THAT IT'S PROBABLY THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO GATHER THE INFORMATION IN A WAY THAT YOU CAN GET ALL THE DETAIL, BECAUSE IT WILL GIVE YOU THE TEXT AS WELL. I REALLY LIKE WHAT THEY DID IT'S YOU CAN.

EVERYTHING IS RIGHT THERE FINGERTIPS AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. I MEAN, THEY THIS IS A LOT OF WORK.

THERE'S A LOT OF WORK PUT INTO THIS. THIS IS YEAH IT'S THERE'S A LOT OF WORK.

[01:40:02]

SO THIS IS I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. SO IF, YOU KNOW, WE LEARN HOW TO NAVIGATE THIS EXCEL.

I THINK YOU'LL FIND ALL THE QUESTIONS COMMISSIONER JESTE THAT YOU WERE ASKING.

SO ALL THESE NEXT TO THOSE COMMENTS. SEE THOSE LETTERS THAT ARE A, B, C, D, E? IF YOU CLICK ON THOSE, THEY ALL HAVE THE DOCUMENTS LIKE PROOF WHAT THEY DID.

SO IT WILL GO TO THE ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, SIGNED AGREEMENT OR SIGNED RESOLUTION OR CONTRACT.

I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER INFORMATION WE COULD ASK OF THEM BECAUSE THIS TO ME IS ABOVE AND BEYOND INFORMATION, WHAT WAS GIVEN TO US. I LIKE WHAT DID THEY MISS? I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THEY MISSED. I MEAN, WE CAN ANALYZE IT.

OR SO THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT I WANTED TO, SO I JUST WANTED TO ADDRESS THE REMAINING COMMENTS AS WELL.

I MEAN, ONE OF THE COMMENTS IS, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE TOTAL COST VERSUS THE INITIAL APPROPRIATION, I THINK COMMISSIONER SHERBIN DISCUSSED THIS EARLIER, THE AMOUNT IN OUR COLUMN F THAT WE'VE INCLUDED THAT YOU'RE COMPARING TO THE TOTAL COST DOES NOT REPRESENT WHAT THE CITY IMAGINES TO BE THE TOTAL END COST.

THAT IS, THAT IS NOT WHAT IT REPRESENTS. SO, YOU KNOW, AS COMMISSIONER SHERBIN SAID, THIS GENERALLY THIS MIGHT BE AN EXPLORATORY PHASE, IT MIGHT BE AN INITIAL DESIGN PHASE, AND THEN COUNCIL WILL GO BACK AND POTENTIALLY ADD TO IT.

I THINK SOMETHING THAT BOTH ANDY, THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, AND JESSIE HAVE DISCUSSED IS IF WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO GET TO, HEY, IS THE CITY PAYING TOO MUCH? YOU KNOW? ARE WE PAYING MORE THAN WE ANTICIPATED? AT LEAST FOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE AND THE BIDS AND LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE OFF IN THOSE ESTIMATIONS. BUT AGAIN, WE'RE NOT.

THE CITY STAFF IS NOT ABLE TO SPEND OUTSIDE OF COUNCIL AUTHORIZATION.

SO IN THOSE CASES WE WOULD NEED TO GO BACK TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.

I DID AN EXAMPLE. THIS MAY BE OVERKILL. SO I COULD LEAVE THIS TO YOU, BUT THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO COMMISSIONER SHERBIN EXAMPLE EARLIER.

COUNCIL REQUESTS A PROJECT, FOR EXAMPLE, PAINTING THE HARBOR GATEWAY.

STAFF HAS AN ESTIMATE FOR THAT COST, COUNCIL APPROPRIATES FUNDING FOR IT.

THE CITY COMPLETES THE WORK. THE NEXT YEAR COUNCIL SAYS, HEY, THAT WAS A GREAT PROJECT.

WE'D LIKE TO ADD THIS OTHER WE'D LIKE TO ADD SCOPE.

HERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL FUNDING. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE INITIAL APPROPRIATION AND THE END FUNDING, YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, WHY DID THE CITY SPEND TWICE AS MUCH? BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT WE'VE COMPLETED THE PROJECT AS DIRECTED WITH THE BUDGET APPROPRIATED.

AND THEN FINALLY, JUST ON DATA AND TRANSPARENCY YOU KNOW, I THINK THE MAYOR AGREED WITH YOU IN YOUR LETTER REGARDING THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM REGARDING CIP PRESENTATION. I THINK, YOU KNOW, HE AGREES, AND THE CITY MANAGER AGREES THAT THERE'S SOME IMPROVEMENT IN HOW WE CAN PRESENT THOSE PROJECTS. AND THE CITY MANAGER HAS ASKED US TO WORK ON THAT.

AND THEN JUST REGARDING TRANSPARENCY, COUNCIL DOES APPROVE EVERY SINGLE APPROPRIATION THEY MAKE ALL OF THESE ARE DONE IN OPEN SESSION OR, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, AND THEY ARE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE.

SO I COMPLETELY APPRECIATE THE CHALLENGES IN FIGURING OUT WHERE THE INFORMATION CAN BEST YOU KNOW WHERE YOU CAN BEST PULL THE INFORMATION. I THINK THIS IS WHY THIS SPREADSHEET IS VERY, VERY HELPFUL.

BUT I DO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT ALL OF THESE DECISIONS ARE IN PUBLIC.

AND I WAS TALKING TO THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR EARLIER TODAY.

HE MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, A GREAT PLACE TO HEAR ABOUT THE THE CIP PLANNING IS THE BUDGET COUNCIL MEETING WHEN THE COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE DISCUSSING THE CAPITAL BUDGET. SO THEY HAVE A WHOLE PUBLIC HEARING DEVOTED TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET.

THEY ASK VERY DETAILED QUESTIONS, AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE KIND OF TALKING TO MANAGEMENT ABOUT THAT, I THINK. I THINK THAT MAY BE ALL THE SLIDES I HAD.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I RESPONDED, WE RESPOND TO THE QUESTIONS AND THAT WE INCLUDE THE INCLUDE THE GROUP AS WELL, IN TERMS OF STAFF GIVING US INFORMATION THAT WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

[01:45:07]

I CAN'T THINK OF. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU THINK IS MISSING? [LAUGHTER] UNLESS WE LOOK AT EACH AND EVERY .

THAT'S WHAT WE ASKED. ITEM IS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF HOMEWORK TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW? THAT'S WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. I KNOW, BUT. AND THEY GAVE IT TO US.

SO IF YOU WANT TO PICK A PROJECT, YOU KNOW, I WAS LIKE, FOR MYSELF, I WAS LIKE, OH, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

AND THEN YOU GO AND START DIGGING. OR IF YOU SEE A BIG NUMBER THAT GOT IT WAS INCREASED.

YOU CAN LOOK AT IT AND THEY HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION IN ONE SPOT.

BECAUSE THE CITY IS NEVER GOING TO APPROVE A $56 MILLION BUDGET ON A PROJECT SITE UNSEEN.

THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT IN PHASES. WHAT IS THE PLANNING PHASE? THE DESIGN PHASE. AND SO THAT'S WHY WHAT CAN LOOK LIKE $1 MILLION APPROVAL CAN ESCALATE VERY QUICKLY OVER TIME.

AND AND THIS SPREADSHEET HAS ALL THAT. HISTORY BEHIND IT.

IT HAS ALL THE, YOU KNOW, I THINK MAYBE, MAYBE COMMISSIONER JESTE WOULD LIKE JUST TO TAKE IT, TAKE A LINE ITEM AND LAY IT OUT HOW, HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT PRESENTED BECAUSE THE DETAIL IS THERE.

AND I THINK IF YOU JUST MAYBE JUST TAKE ONE LINE ITEM AND GRAPHICALLY, I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW GRAPHICALLY TO DISPLAY THE INFORMATION THAT'S THERE AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. LET'S, LET'S CONSIDER THAT.

AND THE OTHER THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS, 50 YEARS, MAYBE 40 YEARS. SO I DON'T ACCEPT THE CLAIM THAT INITIALLY IT'S JUST A VERY SMALL AMOUNT.

AND THEN IT GROWS BECAUSE NOBODY KNOWS UPFRONT WHAT THE TOTAL IS GOING TO BE.

THAT DOESN'T REALLY HAPPEN IN ANY CORPORATION IN ANY BUSINESS.

THEY HAVE TO INITIALLY THEY ARE GOING TO ASK YOU HOW MUCH DO YOU ESTIMATE IS GOING TO COST FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? WHAT THE TOTAL COST WILL BE? YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME IDEA WHEN YOU START WITH $30,000 AND END UP WITH $2 MILLION, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME IDEA UP FRONT WHAT THE TOTAL COST IS GOING TO BE BASED ON WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED IN THE LAST 50 YEARS, SO THAT ANALYTICS IS AVAILABLE TO THE PLANNERS AND THE CITY MANAGER, NOT TO US.

I STILL THINK THEY TALK ABOUT IT FROM A HIGH LEVEL, WHAT THEY ANTICIPATE, BUT THEY AREN'T LOOKING FOR APPROVALS.

THAT SHOULD BE UPFRONT THAT THIS PROJECT, EVEN THOUGH OUR INITIAL REQUEST IS JUST FOR THE ESTIMATE AND FOR WHATEVER ENGINEERING WORK HAS TO BE DONE, THAT'S A VERY SMALL AMOUNT. BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO END UP SPENDING FIVE TIMES AS MUCH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME IDEA UPFRONT HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO BE? YOU DON'T BUILD A HOUSE WITH ONLY, SAY, $100,000 AND THEN END UP SPENDING $2 MILLION TO BUILD IT.

THAT IS WHAT BOTHERS ME, THAT YOU GOT TO HAVE SOME IDEA.

AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPENT THEIR LIVES SPENT SO MANY YEARS, YOU HAVE THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

YOU CAN DO THAT ANALYSIS AND THAT ESTIMATE UPFRONT.

PRESENT THAT AND THEN TRACK THE PROGRESS OF THE PROJECT.

SO I DON'T BUY THIS EXPLANATION THAT INITIALLY WE JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT IS.

I THINK A USEFUL EXERCISE COULD BE YOU CAN TAKE THE SPREADSHEET AND COMPARE THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE TO THE TOTAL SPENDING, AND THAT GAP TELLS YOU, YOU KNOW, HOW FAR THEY DEVIATED FROM WHAT THEY HAD THOUGHT.

YOU CAN'T USE THE INITIAL APPROPRIATED AMOUNT.

THAT'S NOT THE NUMBER. IT'S THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THERE ARE CASES WHERE THE ESTIMATE LIKE THE RECANALIZATION OF A LANE ON PCH.

THE INITIAL ESTIMATE WAS $250,000, AND THE TOTAL PROJECTED SPENDING TURNED OUT TO BE $730,000.

SO THERE ARE CASES WHERE THERE ARE BIG DIFFERENCES, BUT IT TAKES SOME WORK.

NOW JUST QUICKLY, YOU COULD USE CHATGPT TO MAP TO GET THE TEXT FROM THE CONTRACTS AND THE AND THE COUNCIL MEETINGS TO COME UP WITH WHY THIS GOES ON.

BECAUSE THE DATA IS ALL THERE NOW. BUT THAT WOULD BE A USEFUL EXERCISE.

WELL, I THINK ALSO, THOUGH, IF THIS TIES OUT THE WAY THAT STEPHANIE'S INDICATED THAT IT DOES, THEN BY LOOKING AT THE CHANGE NOTICES, WHAT YOU SHOULD YOU SHOULD FIND IS YOU SHOULD FIND A COMPLETE RECONCILIATION BETWEEN WHAT THE CHANGE NOTICES WERE FOR AND WHAT THE HOW THAT FINAL COST GOT INCREASED. SO IF YOU'VE GOT A PROJECT AND YOU'VE GOT A CHANGE NOTICE THEN WHAT DOES THAT CHANGE NOTICE REFLECT? DOES IT REFLECT A BAD ESTIMATE OR DOES IT REFLECT THE FACT THAT THE PROJECT ITSELF NOW IS INCLUDING MORE OR DIFFERENT KINDS OF

[01:50:09]

TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR CHANGE NOTICES AND ADD YOUR CHANGE, EACH PARTICULAR CHANGE NOTICE, AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE DETAIL IS AND ACTUALLY WATCH THIS PROJECT. IF IT'S CHANGING IN SCOPE, YOU CAN ACTUALLY WATCH THE SCOPE CHANGING.

IT'S A MINI PROJECT WITHIN A PROJECT. I'M SORRY? IT'S A MINI PROJECT WITHIN A PROJECT. SO WE CAN PICK ONE OF THESE RIGHT NOW AND THEN WE CAN, YOU KNOW, JUST ONE OF THOSE, NOT ALL 100. AND THEN LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENED.

WELL, I . GOT THE STORY THERE. WELL, I WOULDN'T THINK SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S A HELPFUL USE OF TIME.

I THINK IF WE THINK THAT THIS MAKES IF WE THINK THAT WE SHOULD, IF WE THINK THAT WE SHOULD DO LIKE A FORENSIC ANALYSIS OF IF [LAUGHTER] THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH THE FUNDING, THEN WE DO HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY NOW.

RIGHT? SO YOU CAN TAKE THE SPREADSHEET. YOU CAN GET THE ENGINEERS ESTIMATE.

YOU CAN THEN LOAD THE DOCUMENTS INTO CHATGPT AND TELL IT.

I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, IN THESE DOCUMENTS, WHAT DID THEY SAY WAS THE REASON WHY THEY HAVE TO CHANGE? AND THEN IT WOULD GIVE YOU BACK OUT THE DATA, AND THEN YOU COULD SEE IF THERE ARE COMMON THEMES THAT BEGIN TO EMERGE, LIKE SOME PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DIG A HOLE, THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE BEDROCK AND THEY HAVE TO SPEND A LOT MORE.

SO THEN YOU MIGHT GO BACK AND SAY THE ENGINEER IS OFTEN WRONG IN THESE CASES.

AND THEN YOU MIGHT WANT TO PEEL THE ONION BACK FURTHER AND ASK WHY HE'S OFTEN WRONG IN THESE CASES.

AND IT MIGHT BE THAT THERE'S A GOOD REASON THAT THERE'S NO WAY WITHOUT DRILLING THE HOLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

THAT'S ONE POSSIBILITY. ONE THING COULD SHOW UP IS IT MIGHT BE THAT FOR ONLY CERTAIN COMPANIES, ARE THERE BIG CHANGE ESTIMATES. AND THAT'S A MORE INTERESTING EXERCISE TO UNDERSTAND WHY FOR COMPANY X THEY ALWAYS UNDERBID AND THEN COME BACK AND THEN CHANGE. AND THAT WOULD BE, I THINK, A USEFUL THING IF WE DID FIND THAT, THAT YOU KNOW, FOR THESE TEN COMPANIES, THEY INEVITABLY COME BACK AND TELL YOU THAT THE EXERCISE THAT THE BIDS WERE OFF BY 50% AND THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AND GET MORE FUNDING THAN THE COUNCIL AT THAT POINT, HAVE TO GIVE THE FUNDING BECAUSE THE HOLE IS ALREADY DUG.

THAT WOULD BE FASCINATING, RIGHT? THEN IT WOULD INFORM THE COUNCIL THE NEXT TIME THERE'S A BID THIS COMPANY WOULD NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF.

AND THAT'S DOABLE WITH A RESEARCH ASSISTANT. IT WOULD TAKE, YOU NO MORE THAN ONE DAY JUST TO SORT OF, MAYBE TWO DAYS TO HUNT THAT DOWN WITH THE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE NOW.

SO I THINK THAT'S A USEFUL THING TO DO. I'M NOT SURE THAT WE WOULD GAIN A WHOLE LOT BY JUST CLICKING AT THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DRIVING AT, THAT WITH THE AI TOOLS WE HAVE, I CAN .

YOU COULD FEED IT INTO THE ANALYSIS AND . AND SHOW WHERE THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT ARE WAY TOO OUT OF . YEAH, YEAH. PROPORTION. AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE PROJECT TO BUILD A HOUSE, YOU BUY A PIECE OF LAND, AND THEN YOU GET THE ARCHITECT TO GIVE YOU THE DESIGN, AND THE CONTRACTOR WILL TELL YOU HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST THE WHOLE THING.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, HE WILL SPEND MONEY FOR EACH PHASE, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO COME TO YOU FOR APPROVAL FOR EVERY SINGLE THING, UNLESS YOUR SPECS CHANGE A LOT. SO IF YOU DON'T .

I THINK CHANGE HAPPENS, A LOT OF TIMES THE SPECS CHANGE.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING .

EXACTLY. WHEN I WAS IN PUBLIC WORKS, THAT'S WHAT I SAW.

THAT SPECS CHANGED YOU. YOU START DIGGING A HOLE, AND THEN SOMETHING ELSE COMES UP THAT YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING.

I'M TRYING TO REPLACE A PIPE AND THEN SOMETHING, YOU KNOW.

I UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING.

WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONG TIME. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY FROM THAT, YOU HAVE SOME IDEA.

OF COURSE, THERE WILL BE SOME UNANTICIPATED .

YOU SHOULD EXPECT THAT IF YOU'RE JUST REPLACING A PIPE, SOMETHING ELSE IS GOING TO BE WRONG .

THAT'S TESTABLE SO IF YOU HAVE A SMART HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT LIKE THE REALLY SMART, A REALLY, REALLY SMART ONE IF YOU IF YOU GET THAT PERSON TO COME [LAUGHTER] THEY CAN DO THIS RIGHT WITH CHATGPT.

NOW, THEY COULD HUNT IT DOWN AND TELL YOU. YOU KNOW WHAT? YEAH THEY'VE GOT THEY'VE GOT STUDENT. I'M SORRY? DO YOU HAVE AN AVAILABLE STUDENT? I DON'T HAVE AN AVAILABLE STUDENT, BUT I THINK I THINK SOMEBODY AT THE I KNOW PEOPLE AT THE HIGH SCHOOL,

[01:55:03]

IT WOULD BE A GREAT PUBLIC SERVICE AND . GIVE THEM AN EXTRA CREDIT SEND THEM THIS AND GIVE THEM AN EXTRA CREDIT.

I GUESS I'M MISSING THE POINT A LITTLE BIT ON THIS, [LAUGHTER] BECAUSE I THINK THE CHANGE NOTICES SPECIFICALLY TELL YOU WHAT THE CHANGE IN THE PROJECT IS. YOU DON'T NEED ANY AI IT'S RIGHT THERE.

IT GIVES YOU INSIGHTS AND TRENDS AND WHAT'S GOING ON. SO THE ONLY WRINKLE IS YOU WANT TO SEE WHETHER CERTAIN COMPANIES SYSTEMATICALLY COME BACK. TOTALLY AGREE AS A SECOND STAGE A SECOND STEP ABSOLUTELY .

THAT'S INTERESTING. ABSOLUTELY I TOTALLY AGREE.

I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THAT. BUT TO GET TO THAT FIRST STEP, WHEN YOU'RE SAYING, HOW DID THIS $300,000 PROJECT END UP IN A $4 MILLION PROJECT? IF YOU READ THE CHANGE NOTICES, YOU WILL FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW.

WE CAN DO THAT IN A FEW MINUTES. BUT WELL, WELL, NO, I'M JUST SAYING IT'S THERE .

IT'S THERE. SO IT WOULDN'T TAKE TWO DAYS. YOU CAN DO IT IN 15 MINUTES IS WHY THAT'S THE DEEPER QUESTION.

I TOTALLY AGREE. AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEED A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT TO COME AND CREATE A DATA SET OF ALL THE COMPANIES, AND THEN SEE WHICH ARE THE ONES THAT SYSTEMATICALLY COME BACK, THAT GO OVER BUDGET.

ONCE YOU GET SOME CORRELATION BETWEEN COST INCREASES AND REASONS CODING IT BY REASON CODE, DO YOUR CORRELATIONS, THEN YOU CAN TAKE THAT STEP.

THEN YOU COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL AND YOU SAY THESE FIVE COMPANIES, YOU KNOW THEY THERE'S A CORRELATION OF LIKE 0.9.

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK AND ASK FOR MORE. AND THE QUESTION IS IF THE IF THE IF THE BIDDING IS RANDOMLY ASSIGNED THEN THERE'S A BIG PROBLEM WITH THESE COMPANIES, RIGHT? BUT IF THESE COMPANIES SYSTEMATICALLY PICK THE MORE COMPLEX CASES, IT'S STILL NOT CLEAR THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM. IT'S ONLY IF I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO GO TOO FAR INTO THE WEEDS, BUT YOU GET THE POINT. IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE INTERESTED YOU CAN GET A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT AND SPEND A COUPLE DAYS, AND I THINK YOU'LL FIND SOME COOL STUFF. AND THE COUNCIL WOULD LOVE TO KNOW.

WELL, UNLESS YOU'RE USING YOUR STUDENTS, WE DON'T HAVE A I DON'T HAVE I CANNOT I DON'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH RIGHT NOW.

I DON'T THINK IT'S REASONABLE FOR US TO ASK STAFF.

YEAH, IT'S UNREASONABLE TO ASK STAFF . I DON'T THINK YEAH.

THAT'S YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IT'S SOMETHING I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT ONE OF THE ATTACHMENTS, AND THIS IS FOR THE ANITA AT PCH, THE VERY FIRST PROJECT.

AND IT SAYS AFTER AWARD STAFF SAW OPPORTUNITY FOR ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE MEDIAN ISLAND TO REPLACE DECADES OLD COLOR CONCRETE.

SO THAT'S A BENIGN CHANGE IT'S AND IT'S AND IT'S $104,000.

YEAH. AND IF YOU'RE I MEAN, THE REASON WE ASK THIS FROM STAFF IS SO THAT THERE, THERE'S TRANSPARENCY AND THEY PROVIDED US THAT TRANSPARENCY. SO NOW IF WE'RE REALLY WANT TO GO AND LOOK TO SEE WHAT IT IS, IT'S RIGHT HERE. YEAH. I THINK STAFF HAS GIVEN US EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GIVE US.

I, I DON'T KNOW, QUESTION IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.

I MEAN, IT'S RIGHT THERE. OPEN IT UP AND SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO IT.

AND IF YOU DISAGREE, WHAT HAPPENED. IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT PROJECT, THEN THAT'S AN ITEM WE CAN BRING TO THE AGENDA.

BUT GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH.

OTHERWISE WE HAVE THE DATA. WE DON'T HAVE THE ANALYTICAL TOOLS WITHOUT THE ANALYSIS WE REALLY CANNOT TELL HOW GOOD THE DATA IS .

WELL YOU CAN. WHY DON'T YOU TAKE ONE AND ANALYZE IT? I MEAN, IT WILL TAKE YOU LESS THAN TEN MINUTES TO DO IT.

YOU KNOW, JUST TO SCAN THROUGH THOSE DOCUMENTS.

WELL, I TAKE THAT POINT, BUT I THINK IN THE INTEREST OF TIME IF YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE SPREADSHEET, I THINK IT'S. WE ALL HAVE IT. USEFUL IN PRIVATE TIME, RIGHT? DO IT AND SEE. AND IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, I MEAN, I SOMETIMES I DO THIS STUFF, I GO AND DIG THINGS. AND IF I DON'T LIKE IT, I BRING IT IN AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.

AND CHATGPT WILL HELP YOU IF YOU GET THE I MEAN, IT'LL BE GREAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO READ THE TEXT.

YOU CAN GIVE IT GUIDELINES AS TO WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN THIS TEXT.

AND SO IT'S A GREAT EXERCISE. PICK ONE PROJECT A DAY THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO.

YOU KNOW WHETHER YOU'RE USING CHATGPT OR SOMETHING ELSE.

TAKE ONE A DAY AND SEE IF THERE IS SOMETHING THEY DID THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH OR NOT JUST DISAGREE WITH THAT.

YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY CAN DO BETTER.

AND SOME CODE WORDS COULD BE LIKE READ THE CHANGE ORDER AND LOOK FOR A WORD LIKE UNEXPECTED, RIGHT? THAT'S A SO THAT'S A SIGN THAT SOMETHING OCCURRED THAT .

DO YOU WORK FOR AI. [LAUGHTER] NO, I IT'S MY JOB.

[02:00:03]

DO WE HAVE A VOLUNTEER? SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE VOLUNTEERING .

I SEE YOU VOLUNTEERING. BUT THAT'S. BUT THAT'S THE WAY THAT ONE WOULD BEGIN TO LOOK IF YOU IF YOU SUSPECT THAT SOMETHING IS NOT COMPLETELY KOSHER, THAT'S THE WAY YOU WOULD BEGIN TO LOOK AT THIS IS LIKE, LOOK FOR KEY WORDS THAT YOU THINK WOULD TRIGGER, YOU KNOW, WHY WAS THIS UNEXPECTED. RIGHT. AND EXACTLY AND FIND PATTERNS YEAH.

AND THAT WOULD BE THE WAY TO . WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF PROJECTS HERE.

I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE 20? NOT 20? 30? THIS ISN'T. 26, I THINK . I DON'T KNOW, A COUPLE HOURS ON .

YEAH, THAT'S I MEAN, EVEN EVEN IF, EVEN IF YOU DO IT MANUALLY.

THAT'S MY POINT IS EVEN IF YOU DO IT MANUALLY, IT'S NOT.

CHANGE ORDERS BUT YEAH . YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ WORD BY WORD [LAUGHTER].

YOU CAN LOOK FOR, YOU KNOW, IT'S I MEAN, IT TOOK ME A MINUTE TO FIND THE REASON WHY.

THE FIRST ONE, IT LITERALLY TOOK ME A MINUTE.

BECAUSE THIS DOCUMENT IS. SO WELL PUT TOGETHER.

IT'S AN EXCELLENT DOCUMENT SO. YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S I CANNOT ASK ANYTHING MORE OF STAFF AT THIS POINT.

I THINK THIS IS WE WERE ASKING TRANSPARENCY. THEY PROVIDED US MORE TRANSPARENCY.

ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE I ASK FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS? AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS AFTER PUBLIC COMMENTS TO IF HE GIVES US ANY IDEA.

DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS, PLEASE? YES WE DO.

ONE, ONE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN NO ECOMMENTS OR ZOOM ATTENDEES.

THANK YOU. HI AGAIN. I HAVE A BACKGROUND IN GOVERNMENT CONTRACT CONSTRUCTION, CONTRACT PROCUREMENT, AND CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION. I CAN TELL YOU THERE ARE CERTAIN PATTERNS YOU LOOK FOR.

YOU LOOK FOR BIDDERS THAT CONSTANTLY BID ON CONTRACTS THAT ARE CHANGE ORDER.

YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE TOTAL RATE OF CHANGE ORDERS OVER ALL YOUR CONTRACTS, NOT JUST THIS YEAR'S BUT TO SEE AND COMPARE IT WITH OTHER CITIES, RATES OF CHANGE ORDERS AND SEE IF YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR PROBLEM.

YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR PEOPLE IF YOU USE CONSULTING ENGINEERS TO DESIGN PROJECTS, YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION BETWEEN THE BIDDERS AND THE CONSULTING ENGINEERS. WHICH WOULD BE, AGAIN, A COMPARING THE ORIGINAL PROJECT ESTIMATE WITH THE FINAL COST.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT YOU CAN FIND THIS OUT.

I THINK ONE YEAR'S DATA IS TOO MUCH, IS TOO LITTLE.

YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH SEVERAL YEARS DATA TO FIND A PATTERN.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS THE PATTERN OF COLLUSION.

PATTERN OF UNDERBIDDING, PATTERN OF EXCESS CHANGE ORDERS.

AND THEN YOU CAN START LOOKING AT THE DETAIL.

AND YOU CAN SEE WHETHER THESE CHANGE ORDERS WERE JUSTIFIED OR NOT.

AND YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, THEN YOU CAN START TO ATTACK IT.

BUT I TELL YOU, THERE ARE BIG BUCKS ASSOCIATED WITH CONSTRUCTION IN THIS CITY AND ALL OVER, AND IT'S WORTH A GOOD DEAL OF TIME TO INVESTIGATE IT TO THE CITY.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO YOU KNOW .

BETTER. YEAH, I THINK NOW NOW I'M PROBABLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.

YOU WANT AN AUDIT. YOU WANT YOU NEED TO SO WE NEED TO HIRE SOMEONE TO DO AN AUDIT.

THIS CAN'T BE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. I DON'T THINK THE DEPARTMENT SHOULD AUDIT THEIR OWN WORK.

BUT IT SHOULD COME FROM A THIRD PARTY AUDIT .

SO IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING. NOW, I'M UNDERSTANDING WHAT HE'S RECOMMENDING THANK YOU.

SEE, THIS IS WHY WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS . BUT NOW IT'S IT CLICKS WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO.

THAT'S HOW WE GET $300 HAMMER THAT PENTAGON BUYS.

THAT'S HOW WE GET $60,000 TO PAINT A SIGN FOR THE REDONDO PIER.

AND THOSE ITEMS, THEY STICK OUT. AND UNLESS YOU DO SOME KIND OF ANALYSIS AND COMPARISON.

AND TO JIM'S POINT, HOW MANY CONTRACTORS ARE ISSUING CHANGE ORDERS AND HOW MUCH MORE ARE THEY JACKING UP? IT'S LIKE YOU HIRE A CONTRACTOR BASED ON THE LOWEST BID, AND THEN IT STARTS ADDING ALL THESE CHANGES.

PRETTY SOON, YOU KNOW IT'S WAY OUT OF THE BALLPARK.

THAT NEEDS TO BE TRACKED, AND THAT NEEDS TO BE COMPARED WITH THE DATA FROM THE PREVIOUS FIVE, TEN YEARS, ALLOWING FOR INFLATION. OKAY. NOW NOW I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE HEADED .

THIS DOESN'T GIVE ME THAT I CAN'T . THIS GIVES YOU THE TRANSPARENCY DATA.

[02:05:01]

YOU'RE LOOKING FOR AN AUDITOR TO COME AND TAKE A PROFESSIONAL .

YEAH AI CAN AI DO A LOT OF IT, AS MR. RAMCHARAN SAID.

SO IS THAT A MOTION YOU WOULD LIKE TO? AI IS CAPABLE OF DOING MANY THINGS.

AND WE'RE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT. OKAY, SO WHAT MOTION WOULD YOU LIKE TO.

[LAUGHTER] I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PHRASE IT. SMART HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT TO BECOME A SENIOR [LAUGHTER].

IT'LL BE A GOOD PROJECT FOR THEM, NO DOUBT. AP CALCULUS AND AP STATS.

WELL, LET'S START WITH THE MOTION AND THEN WE'LL CHIP IN.

SO WHAT. BECAUSE I THIS IS, YOU KNOW, YOUR BABY I WANT TO I WANT YOU TO START WORDING IT AND THEN.

LET ME GIVE IT SOME THOUGHT I WILL TAKE A LOOK AT 1 OR 2 PROJECTS AND GO INTO ALL THOSE DETAILS, AND DO MY BEST TO COME UP WITH MY OWN ASSESSMENT.

OKAY. AND I WON'T CALL IT AUDIT. THIS IS GOING TO BE BASED ON WHAT I HAVE DONE IN THE PAST.

AND THEN WE CAN GO FROM THERE. WE CANNOT SIMPLY MAKE A DECISION ON THE SPOT RIGHT NOW AND SAY, WE WANT AUDIT. THEY'LL SAY, OKAY, WHAT DO YOU WANT THE AUDITOR TO DO? I DON'T KNOW YET. OKAY, OKAY WELL, IT'S BEEN ON THE AGENDA FOR A WHILE.

THE SPREADSHEET HAS BEEN WITH US FOR A WHILE, SO.

SO IF YOU WANT. SO WE'RE GOING TO BRING THIS BACK.

AND NEXT TIME THE PURPOSE OF IT FOR BRINGING BACK IS SO THAT WE MAKE A MOTION EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

IT'S EITHER GETTING A, YOU KNOW, A RECOMMENDATION TO GET AN AUDITOR OR THANK YOU WE'RE CLOSING.

I THINK BASED ON OUR COMMISSIONERS ANALYSIS, WE CAN COME UP WITH A PLAN.

WHAT OUR NEXT STEP SHOULD BE BASED ON WHAT HE COMES UP WITH ON THE 2 OR 3.

SO WHY DON'T WE MAKE THAT KIND OF YOUR. I CAN ONLY GIVE YOU OBSERVATIONS, NOT ANALYSIS AS SUCH, BECAUSE THAT WILL BE VERY TIME CONSUMING FOR ME.

OKAY, WELL, I THINK . IT WOULD BE MORE THE RECOMMENDATION OF WHAT THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS APPROACH IS OR A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL SAYING YOU SHOULD HIRE AN AUDITOR TO DIG INTO THIS BECAUSE WE THINK THERE'S SAVINGS THERE. SO WHATEVER IT IS, BASED ON YOUR FINDINGS OR WHAT .

STARTING POINT STEPHANIE HAS DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB OF GIVING US ALL THE DATA, BUT IT IS STILL HIDDEN UNDER THE A, B, C AND ALL THOSE LETTERS AND SOMEBODY HAS TO REALLY DIG INTO IT.

YEAH, AND I JUST DID THAT IN A MINUTE BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT THERE. IT'S AT YOUR FINGERTIPS. BUT THAT'S ONLY FOR THAT ONE PARTICULAR. YES AND THERE'S ONLY 30 SOME PROJECTS OR 26 PROJECTS. THAT'S THE COMMISSIONER . SO AND IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK TEN YEARS, THEN WE DO NEED TO HIRE AN AUDITOR.

I'VE DONE THIS FOR 30 YEARS AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE.

I AGREE WITH YOU. I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU AT ALL.

I AGREE WITH YOU. I JUST I'M JUST LOOKING FOR A MOTION RIGHT NOW.

WHAT TO DO WITH THIS? OR NEXT TIME, IF WE KEEP BRINGING THIS BACK AND WE TALK ABOUT IT OVER THE SAME THING OVER.

AND I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. WELL, LET'S JUST BRING IT BACK AND LET JESTE AHEAD AND DO AN ANALYSIS OF 1 OR 2 PROJECTS, SEE IF HE SEES SOMETHING THAT WARRANTS US DIGGING DEEPER INTO IT, AND THEN WE CAN BRING IT UP NEXT.

YES. NEXT MEETING. ALL RIGHT . THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

YES ALL RIGHT. SO MOTION TO WHAT HE SAID. HE ALREADY THAT WAS THE MOTION [LAUGHTER].

AND WHO'S GOING TO SECOND? OH, OKAY. YOU WERE THE FIRST ALRIGHTY.

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OH ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED.

SO WE WILL BRING THIS BACK AND WE'LL GO. WE'LL MOVE ON AFTER IT BEING ANALYZED.

ALL RIGHT NEXT. AGAIN, IT'S 8:40. IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSIONERS IF WE WANT TO SKIP J.3 OR NOT FOR TONIGHT, AND THEN WE'LL BRING IT BACK NEXT TIME.

FINE CARRYING IT OVER. YOU WANT TO CARRY IT OVER? YEAH. OKAY. MOTION TO CARRY J.3 TO NEXT MONTH'S MEETING.

I SECOND THAT MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIES. SO WE'LL BRING THIS BACK NEXT TIME.

SO BOTH J.2 AND J.3 ARE COMING BACK. J.4 STEPHANIE, DO YOU HAVE? I DID NOT CHECK YOUR THE DATES. YES SO. CAN YOU GUYS PUT THAT ON A SCREEN PLEASE? SO J.4 IS IN APRIL. OUR APRIL'S MEETING WAS INITIALLY SCHEDULED FOR THE SECOND WEDNESDAY. NO, SECOND THURSDAY . SECOND THURSDAY I CAN FIND IT.

AND WE. SO WHAT I'M ASKING . APRIL 9TH. IF WE CAN MOVE IT TO ANY OF THESE DATES, BECAUSE THAT'S SPRING VACATION.

[02:10:06]

AND WE WERE ASKING THE COMMISSION IF IT IS OKAY FOR US TO MOVE THAT MEETING.

JUST A QUICK QUESTION. DO WE KNOW IF WE'LL HAVE A QUORUM, IF THE FOLKS THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE HERE? REGARDLESS OF A QUORUM, WE JUST WANT TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY IF, YOU CAN VOTE NO.

BUT REGARDLESS OF QUORUM, THIS IS FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE CHILDREN, HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND.

WELL, HERE'S MY QUESTION. WHY DO WE NEED TO BREAK WITH THE CURRENT POLICY THAT WE HAVE MEETINGS THAT ARE SCHEDULED ON PARTICULAR DAYS AND THAT THOSE MEETINGS TAKE PLACE UNLESS WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM? SO WHAT'S THE REASON THAT WE'RE MAKING A CHANGE IN THAT? BECAUSE WE CAN ASK TO MOVE, AND THEREFORE I AM ASKING TO MOVE THE MEETING.

AND A QUESTION, I GUESS ARISES WITH RESPECT TO HOW THAT DISLOCATES YOUR VIDEO ENGINEER YOU THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO BE INFORMED. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS, AND ALL OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS ALSO HAVE TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND A SCHEDULE CHANGE OR ACCOMMODATE A SCHEDULE CHANGE. THIS ITEM HAS BEEN ON SCHEDULE FOR.

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME IT'S BEEN ON SCHEDULE.

IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO VOTE, THEY HAVE AN OPINION, THEN THEY VOTE NO.

IT'S A SIMPLE VOTE IF IF AND IT HAS TO PASS BY MAJORITY.

IF MAJORITY DOESN'T VOTE YES, THEN IT DOESN'T PASS.

THE DATES HAVE ALREADY BEEN CHECKED. WELL, HERE'S MY QUESTION.

TO CHECK THE DATES TO MAKE SURE . HAS THE. HAS THE COMMISSION AGREED TO MAKE A CHANGE AT ALL, OR CONSIDER EVEN MAKING A CHANGE RATHER THAN SELECTING DATES THAT ARE HERE? I MEAN, WHAT'S PROMOTED THE REASON FOR A CHANGE IN THE DATE AT ALL? AND HAS ANYBODY AGREED TO THAT? SO WE HAVE PARENTS ON THIS .

I UNDERSTAND . THAT'S WHAT IT IS. OKAY. SO . I'M NOT THE ONLY PARENT.

THREE OF US WOULD POTENTIALLY MISS IT . OKAY .

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT YOU, BUT I WOULD BE LIKELY MISSING.

AND HE ALSO HAS CHILDREN THE TURNER . ABSOLUTELY.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING SO AGAIN. OH, YOU THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME? NO, I WAS JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR THE CHANGE.

I SAID LIKE A FEW TIMES FOR PARENTS WHO . WELL.

WE'RE NOT. I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND TONIGHT I FOUND OUT THAT THE FOUR PARENTS HERE.

PEOPLE THAT HAVE PARENTS OF CHILDREN. SO THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

SO SO STEPHANIE WAS NICE ENOUGH TO PUT THIS FOR US TOGETHER.

AND SO BOTH SHE AND I ACTUALLY CHECKED TO MAKE SURE THESE DATES ARE AVAILABLE.

THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS IS AVAILABLE. I'M LOOKING AT OUR SCHEDULE.

I KNOW THIS WAS ALREADY IN A CALENDAR. WE CAN THE.

WE CAN, I GUESS, ELIMINATE. ARE THERE ANY DATES THAT YOU CANNOT DO YOU DON'T WANT? OR OR ARE ALL THESE DATES WORK? BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT MY CALENDAR AND I CAN MAKE ANY OF THESE DATES.

I CAN MAKE ALL OF MINE WORK AS WELL. YEAH, IT'S ALL FINE.

I MEAN. ALL FINE? ALL FINE. I GUESS THE ONLY THING IS LIKE THE 15TH IS TAX DAY, SO YOU [LAUGHTER] MIGHT BE TIRED FROM DOING THAT, BUT IT'S ALL FINE. I'M FLEXIBLE SO YEAH. I'M FINE ANY OF THE DAYS.

OKAY. ANY OF THE DAYS? OKAY. DOES ANYBODY WANT TO.

JESTE DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR ANY OF THESE DAYS? I MEAN YOU CAN ALWAYS AGAIN, YOU CAN VOTE NO .

YOU DON'T [LAUGHTER] YOU DON'T HAVE TO VOTE YES.

ANY. WELL, I'LL ASK STAFF. STEPHANIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY PREFERENCE WHICH DATES WORKS BEST FOR YOU? I DON'T HAVE A STRONG PREFERENCE. THURSDAY WOULD PROBABLY BE THE EASIEST JUST BECAUSE THE MEETINGS ARE ALWAYS ON A THURSDAY, SO IT KEEPS THE SAME SCHEDULE. LET'S DO THURSDAY.

THURSDAY YEAH. ANYBODY WANTS TO MOVE? MOVE TO CHANGE OUR APRIL MEETING TO THURSDAY, APRIL 23RD. AND I SECOND THAT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? I'M WAITING. ALL OPPOSED? [LAUGHTER] NO, NO YOU MISUNDERSTOOD I'M TOTALLY FOR THIS MOTION.

MOTION CARRIES . GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES. OH, DID I NEED TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT? YES. DO YOU HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT? [LAUGHTER] ARE YOU? ARE YOU AVAILABLE? I'M AVAILABLE ALL RIGHT THANK YOU MOTION CARRIES. BUDGET FINANCE MEETING ALL RIGHT.

AND SO, SAME TIME, 6:30. YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU

[02:15:02]

SO TODAY WE HAVE TO ELECT THE NEXT CHAIRPERSON.

WE ARE MISSING TWO MEMBERS. I THINK SOMEBODY WANTED TO BE THE NEXT CHAIR, BUT HE'S NOT HERE, AND I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO BE HERE WHEN WE'RE DOING THIS, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE GOING TO NOMINATE THEM.

WELL, I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE JERRY WOODHAM. I KNOW HE'S NOT HERE, BUT HE COULDN'T BE HERE TONIGHT BUT KNOWS THAT I PLAN TO NOMINATE HIM.

AND HE WOULD BE PLEASED TO SERVE IF ELECTED. AND I THINK THAT JERRY BRINGS SOME SPECIAL BLEND OF TALENT TO OUR COMMISSION.

HE'S A STICKLER FOR TRANSPARENCY AND AN EXPERT IN PUBLIC FINANCE.

AND I KNOW HE'S A GOOD PARLIAMENTARIAN THANK YOU.

SO I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE JERRY WOODHAM FOR CHAIRPERSON.

I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE CHAIR ALLEN. SO SHE CAN CONTINUE IN THAT POSITION FOR ONE MORE YEAR. HOW DO WE DO THIS? DO WE VOTE ON THE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE PROPOSED OR? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE POLICY OR PROCEDURE. I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN CORRECT ME.

I BELIEVE SO. I MEAN, I THINK WE WAIT TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS.

BUT YES, OTHERWISE I BELIEVE YOU NOMINATE AND THEN YOU VOTE.

I WILL JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SHARED THAT THE ELECTION IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN OCTOBER OR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AFTER THAT.

THAT SAID, IF THE WHOLE COMMISSION FEELS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'D PREFER TO HAVE A MEETING WHERE THE WHOLE COMMISSION IS PRESENT.

THAT WOULD DEFINITELY BE THE PREFERENCE. BUT AGAIN, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE DID LAST TIME? I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD . BUT IS IT POSSIBLE TO GUARANTEE THAT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE HERE IN DECEMBER? I DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE TO PUNT . LAST TIME WE DELAYED FOR THAT, FOR THIS ONE. NOW, TODAY, HE'S STILL NOT HERE.

AND I PERSONALLY DON'T WANT TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO'S NOT HERE BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE HERE AND THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE OKAY AND THEY'RE ACCEPTING SO IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSION . I IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSION.

WE NEED TO HAVE THE CANDIDATE HERE BEFORE WE DECIDE TO VOTE FOR ANYONE.

YEAH I THINK JUST HAVING JUST HAVING A FULLER COMMISSION, REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING ELSE, I THINK WOULD BE A BENEFIT SO IF .

WE HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY OR . I AM I AM NOT THE CITY CLERK BUT AGAIN I REREAD I REREAD THE HANDBOOK TODAY AND IT DOES SAY OCTOBER OR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

OKAY. SO WE ALREADY DELAYED ONCE? WE ALREADY DELAYED ONCE.

AND THEN WE THERE IS NO GUARANTEE TO DECEMBER IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ALL SEVEN PEOPLE HERE? BECAUSE IT IS DECEMBER NEXT TIME. I MEAN, YEAH, YOU NEVER KNOW.

SOMEONE GETS SICK THINGS AND JUST THINGS COME UP. YOU NEVER KNOW. SO I'M OPEN EITHER I'M OPEN TO MOVING IT TILL TO NEXT MONTH, BUT . I'M FLEXIBLE AS WELL. I'M OKAY. I'M FLEXIBLE TOO EITHER, YOU KNOW, EITHER WAY, EITHER MOVE IT OR . I DON'T THINK ANY PUNISHMENT WILL COME DOWN [LAUGHTER].

OKAY. I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THE CITY CLERK TELLS ME I'M WRONG .

HOW MANY PEOPLE DO WE WANT MINIMUM TO, YOU KNOW, IS IT GOING TO BE SAME? AS LONG AS WE HAVE A QUORUM, I THINK . OR I THINK MAYBE WE AGREE THAT WHEN EVERYONE SEES, WE'LL MOVE IT ONE MORE TIME BUT.

YEAH. DECEMBER, WE MAKE A DECISION . OKAY. IF WE'RE ALL IN KIND OF.

PERFECT SO NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, DECEMBER IS.

OKAY. WE'LL MAKE A DECISION . SO ASSUMING WE HAVE A QUORUM [LAUGHTER]. OKAY SO THAT WAS THE MOTION.

YEAH. SO HE MADE A MOTION TO MOVE TO DECEMBER, BUT DECEMBER HAS TO BE THE LAST.

YEAH THE UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION THEN.

ANYONE SECOND? SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED. SO WE'RE ALSO TAKING ITEM J.5 TO NEXT TIME.

J.6 PENSION QUESTIONS TO ADDRESS IN FUTURE PRESENTATION.

WE JUST ADDED THIS HERE. WE KNEW WE WEREN'T GOING TO HAVE TIME.

IS IT OKAY IF WE. MOVE TO. MOVE TO NEXT TIME MOTION? I WOULD ALSO SAY IF ANYONE HAS SOME BURNING QUESTIONS THEY WOULD LIKE US TO ADDRESS IN OUR PENSION PRESENTATION, I THINK YOU'RE FREE TO JUST EMAIL THEM TO ME.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE GROUP NEEDS TO AGREE ON THOSE UNLESS YOU WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT.

SO POTENTIALLY, IF WE JUST WANT TO SEND THOSE TO ME, I CAN PULL THEM TOGETHER, SHARE THEM WITH THE GROUP AND THEN INCLUDE THOSE.

[02:20:04]

IS THERE ANY UPDATE AROUND TIMING OF THEM ACTUALLY GIVING US A PRESENTATION? THERE IS NOT.

I WILL REACH OUT TO THEM AGAIN. YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY WE'VE HAD THIS IN DECEMBER. YEAH. AS I REPORTED THEY HAVE TOLD ME THIS IS A COURTESY THEY EXTEND ONCE A YEAR.

SO WE'LL LOOK AT DECEMBER. HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE A FAIRLY FULL MEETING FOR DECEMBER BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE THE TREASURER'S QUARTERLY REPORT THAT WE POSTPONED FROM THIS MEETING.

WE WILL HAVE MY YEAR-END REPORT THAT WE ALSO POSTPONED FROM THIS MEETING .

SO WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS ALL THAT IN ITEM K.

I'M SORRY? WE'RE NOT ON ITEM K YET . BUT SHE'S SAYING THAT WE'RE .

I'M SORRY I'M TALKING THROUGH THE PENSION . DECEMBER BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY STACKED OUR CALENDAR FOR THIS.

OKAY. SO . SO FOR NOW LET'S MOVE THIS TO NEXT TIME.

AND THEN IN K LET'S DISCUSS THE SCHEDULE FOR THE NEXT.

SURE I WAS JUST DISCUSSING FOR THE PENSION. FOR DECEMBER. DO WE, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO MOVE PENSION QUESTIONS TO ADDRESS IN FUTURE PRESENTATION TO THE DECEMBER AGENDA, PLEASE? I PROPOSE. ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO DISCUSS IN DECEMBER? AND WE CAN ALWAYS MOVE IT IF WE DECIDE . TO SEND QUESTIONS.

DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT? I GUESS WOULD BE MY QUESTION.

THIS IS AN ITEM I PUT ON THE AGENDA . CAME FROM YOU, I THINK LAST TIME, SO IT'S UP TO YOU.

I THINK THIS ACTUALLY CAME FROM ME. OKAY. I WON'T.

DID IT COME FROM YOU? YOU COULD HAVE COME FROM ME.

OKAY. I THINK. BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK CHECK BACK MY NOTES IT WAS FROM .

I THINK WE WERE ALL KIND OF GOING AROUND, LIKE ABOUT WHAT SHOULD WE ASK OR WHAT? AND THEN WE SAID, LET'S REVIEW IT AND COME BACK .

YEP. BUT IF IT'S EASIER, I THINK IT MIGHT BE, RATHER THAN TAKING THE TIME AND PUTTING IT ON AS AN ITEM, IT MIGHT JUST BE EASIER THAN ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WE HAVE . WE ALL JUST BASICALLY SEND STUFF .

OKAY ALL RIGHT. SO IT NEEDS TO BE CARRIED OVER.

WE WILL NOT BRING THIS BACK IN DECEMBER. CORRECT.

AND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS IN DECEMBER WHEN WE WANT TO TALK ALL RIGHT.

AND YOU ALREADY MADE A MOTION. DID ANYONE MAKE? A MOTION TO CLOSE THIS OR ANY ECOMMENTS OR? [LAUGHTER] OH WE DON'T HAVE ANY ECOMMENTS OR ATTENDEES ON ZOOM.

THANK YOU. THE MOTION TO CLOSE THIS ITEM. ANY SECOND? YES. YOU SECOND? SECOND THE MOTION. ALL [LAUGHTER].

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL NOT IN FAVOR? MOTION CARRIED.

[K. COMMISSION MEMBER ITEMS AND FUTURE COMMISSION AGENDA TOPICS]

IT'S THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES PROCUREMENT, NOMINATION AND ELECTION OF CHAIRPERSON.

AND THEN THERE IS A TREASURER'S QUARTERLY TREASURER'S REPORT.

ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, I'LL ALSO HAVE OUR 24-25 YEAR END.

OKAY. THAT'S TOO MUCH. 24-25 YEAR END? NO, I MEAN, THAT'S GREAT.

THAT'S GREAT. THAT'S A PRIORITY. SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE PRIORITIZE.

SO TO ME, THE 24-25 YEAR END THAT'S A PRIORITY.

YEAH AND THE TREASURER'S REPORT I THINK ARE BOTH.

SO DO WE WANT TO TAKE ANY OF LIKE J.3, J.2 OR J.3 AND MOVE THAT TO JANUARY? JUST A QUICK QUESTION, STEPHANIE. YEAH. WHEN DOES THE TREASURER MAKE HIS REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL? SO HE'LL SUBMIT IT TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON ACTUALLY THE NEXT WEEK'S MEETING.

SO NORMALLY HE WOULD HAVE PRESENTED THIS WEEK.

HOWEVER, WE HAD A COUPLE IT WASN'T GREAT TIMING FOR HIM.

AND WITH OUR SPECIFIC AGENDA, IT WASN'T GREAT TIMING FOR US.

SO WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT ON NEXT THE NEXT AGENDA.

IT WILL GO TO COUNCIL AS USUAL BECAUSE HIS REPORTS GO TO COUNCIL ON THE 18TH.

BUT HE'LL PRESENT IT IN DETAIL TO THE. AND ANY INPUTS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO MAKE? THAT RESULT FROM HIS PRESENTATION AREN'T REALLY TIMELY AND SO WHEN WE SET THE DATE FOR.

PARDON ME. FOR HIS PRESENTATION ISN'T AS IMPERATIVE AS IT IS NOW? THAT WAS THAT WAS BECAUSE WE HAVE PRIORITY. YEAH NO I UNDERSTAND.

SO THE BUDGET STUFF, I'M JUST TRYING TO IDENTIFY SOMETHING THAT WE COULD PUSH BACK EVEN FURTHER.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES SENSE. YES. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING .

OKAY, OKAY I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU IF THERE IS.

CAN WE PUSH THAT BACK TO JANUARY? THE TREASURER'S REPORT.

AND THEN MAYBE THEY CAN DO THE TWO QUARTERS TOGETHER? IT BECAUSE IN JANUARY AND THEN FEBRUARY THEY HAVE THE NEXT QUARTER PROBABLY.

BUT CAN WE THEN PENCIL IN FOR JANUARY? WE'VE GOT TO PUSH SOMETHING BECAUSE SO IT'S NOT THAT WAY .

WHAT ELSE IS IT GOING TO BE? I MISSED, I MISSED IT.

[02:25:03]

IT'S NOT A PRESENTATION. OKAY, I'M SORRY, I MISUNDERSTOOD.

SO THEY DON'T THEY DON'T NEED US TO APPROVE ANYTHING BEFORE THEY SUBMIT YEAH.

SO IS THAT OKAY THAT WE PUSH THAT TO JANUARY AND SO WE CAN FINISH UP THE OTHER? SURE. YES? ALL RIGHT. MOTION TO ONLY HAVE THE PRIORITY WISE WILL BE FISCAL YEAR 2024-25 REPORT BY STEPHANIE AND THEN CIPS AND THEN PROFESSIONALS AND THEN NOMINATIONS.

AND THEN THE TREASURY WILL BE IN JANUARY. AND ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE [LAUGHTER]. ALL OPPOSED? OH ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? ANY ECOMMENTS? I JUST HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION BEFORE I VOTE ON THAT.

IF IF WOULD WE BE BETTER OFF PUSHING THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICE PROCUREMENT TO JANUARY AND HAVING THE TREASURER'S REPORT AND? BECAUSE STEPHANIE IS GOING TO DO THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-25, THAT'S A BIG PRESENTATION ON ITS OWN.

OKAY. THAT'S WHY. THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO BE LIKE THE BIG ITEM FOR NEXT TIME.

THAT'S IT IS RIGHT THAT'S A BIG DEAL. THAT'S NOT SMALL ITEM.

THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. IT'S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST DEAL OF THE YEAR.

GOTCHA. SECOND, MAYBE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED. ADJOURNMENT.

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL OPPOSED? CARRIED. 8:57 END OF MEETING. ADJOURNED. THANK YOU.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.