[A. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
[00:00:07]
CAN WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? YES. COMMISSIONER MARIN? HERE. COMMISSIONER JESTE? YEAH. COMMISSIONER SHERBIN? HERE. COMMISSIONER RAMCHARAN? YEAH. COMMISSIONER WOODHAM? HERE. COMMISSIONER TURNER? HERE. CHAIR ALLEN? HERE. THANK YOU. NEXT WILL BE THE SALUTE TO THE FLAG.
PLEASE RISE. READY? BEGIN. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
THANK YOU, MAY BE SEATED. ITEM D APPROVED THE ORDER OF THE AGENDA.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ORDER OF THE AGENDA?
[D. APPROVE ORDER OF AGENDA]
SO MOVED. I SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? NON, MOTION CARRIED. ARE THERE ANY BLUE ORDER ITEMS? THERE ARE NO BLUE FOLDER ITEMS FOR TODAY. THANK YOU.[F. CONSENT CALENDAR]
DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT CALENDAR? MOTION TO APPROVE. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.ALL OPPOSED? NON, MOTION CARRIED. ITEM G. ARE THERE ANY EXCLUDED CONSENT CALENDAR ITEMS? NO. IS THERE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION OF NON-AGENDA ITEMS?
[H. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS]
YES, WE DO HAVE ONE. OH, I HAVE TO CALL MY NAME.SORRY. I'M. DOING EVERYTHING BY PROTOCOL. JIM MUELLER.
OKAY, JIM MUELLER. PUBLIC. ITEM. YES. THANK YOU.
NON AGENDA ITEM. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSION. I COMMEND YOU ON YOUR AGENDA TONIGHT. YOU ARE SHINING A LIGHT ON ISSUES HAVING TO DO WITH CITY BUDGETS AND FINANCES AND SO DOING PERFORMING A REAL SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY. I HOPE THE CITY STAFF ADOPTS MORE OF A SPIRIT OF OPENNESS WITH CITY FINANCES, MAKING THE NUMBERS MORE ACCESSIBLE AND UNDERSTANDABLE TO YOU, THE COMMISSIONERS, THE COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC.
HOW TO BUDGET LIMITED RESOURCES STILL GET THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE DONE.
THEY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN PLAN AND ESTIMATE ALL YOU WANT, BUT STUFF HAPPENS.
DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE WHEN THINGS ARE UNCERTAIN AND MISTAKES ARE MADE.
AND WHEN THINGS GET OUT OF WHACK. YOU NEED TO BE QUICK TO PLAN HOW TO GET BACK ON TRACK.
THE WORST THING A PUBLIC SERVANT CAN DO IN THE FINANCIAL REALM IS USE FINANCIAL TECHNIQUES THAT PREVENT THE PEOPLE FROM UNDERSTANDING HOW PUBLIC MONEY IS MANAGED AND SPENT. WHEN YOU ARE SPENDING OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, YOU ARE IN A POSITION OF TRUST AND YOU NEVER WANT TO EVEN SEEM TO BE HIDING THINGS OR VIOLATING THE PEOPLE'S TRUST. ONE OF THE SAYINGS IN A LARGE ORGANIZATION I WORKED IN WAS KEEP THE KIMONO OPEN.
IF PEOPLE THINK SOMETHING IS BEING HIDDEN FROM THEM, THAT'S WHEN THEY REALLY GET ANGRY.
YOU, AS THE ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FINANCES, CAN FOCUS ON FINANCIAL ISSUES AND KEEP THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AWARE OF FINANCIAL DECISIONS THEY NEED TO MAKE. ANOTHER DIMENSION OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT IS TO DEVELOP A SENSE OF PRIORITY.
HAVING THE SMALL THINGS THE KNITS UNDER CONTROL DOES NOT MAKE UP FOR NEGLECTING A MAJOR ISSUE.
THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO END THE YEAR IN THE BEST SHAPE POSSIBLE.
OVERALL, YOU'VE DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB. THANK YOU, MR. MUELLER. ARE THERE ANY ECOMMENTS OR EMAILS RECEIVED FROM THE PUBLIC? THERE ARE NO ECOMMENTS AND THERE ARE NO ATTENDEES ON ZOOM.
THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM. ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS AGENDAS.
IT'S REALLY THE LETTER. I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO J.1.
[J. ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION PRIOR TO ACTION]
IT WAS THE LETTER TO COUNCIL. SO THERE WAS A TAKE, I CALL IT POLITICAL TECHNICALITY, BECAUSE[00:05:05]
WE VOTED ON IT AND IT WAS A CONCURRENCE OR SOMETHING OF A SORT.WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SEND THE LETTER TO COUNCIL.
SO THEY WANT US TO VOTE ON THE LETTER OFFICIALLY BEFORE THEY SEND IT TO COUNCIL.
SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. I'M READING THE BROWN ACT AS WE SPEAK.
EVERYONE SAYS, GREAT, WE SUPPORT THESE TWO PEOPLE WRITING A LETTER AND YOU SEND IT OFF.
BECAUSE THIS TIME YOU ASKED TO WRITE THE LETTER.
AND THEN I SENT IT OUT TO EVERYBODY FOR COMMENT, EVEN THOUGH NOBODY HAD ANY CHANGES, IT BECOMES A BIT OF A DISCUSSION, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT A DISCUSSION.
YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T NO ONE EXCHANGED ANY EMAILS EXCEPT FOR ME.
I DID TALK TO THE CITY CLERK ABOUT THIS, TO THE CITY MANAGER ABOUT IT.
CITY MANAGER DISCUSSED IT WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY. SO AGAIN, REALLY APOLOGIZE FOR THE MIX UP.
I'M GLAD CHAIR ALLEN WAS ABLE TO READ THE LETTER ON HER BEHALF.
AND YOU'RE ABLE TO GET THAT INFORMATION TO COUNCIL.
THANK YOU. WHAT? TWO QUESTIONS. WHAT WAS IT THAT MADE YOU GO TO CITY CLERK? BECAUSE I WAS NOT POSITIVE ABOUT THE PROCEDURE.
OKAY. AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I WAS DOING THE CORRECT THING.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY I SHOULD HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WITH MYSELF AT THE, DURING THE MEETING LAST WEEK AND GONE WITH WHAT IS TRIED AND TRUE.
BUT AGAIN, I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THE PROCEDURE FROM CITY CLERK'S OFFICE, IF THEY CAN, INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING BROWN ACT DOESN'T ALLOW, COPY PASTE WHAT IT IS EXACTLY THAT PREVENTED US TO DO THIS.
SO WHAT I DID IS I JUST WENT TO COUNCIL MEETING AND I READ PART OF THE LETTER ON MY BEHALF.
NOW, LOOKING BACK AT THE LETTER I DO WANT TO MAKE MORE CHANGES AND ADD SOME MORE ITEMS. SO WE HAVE TWO CHOICES. I CAN PARTNER UP WITH SOMEONE WHILE I'M DOING IT OR I CAN WRITE IT.
BRING IT BACK NEXT TIME AND WE VOTE BEFORE IT GOES TO COUNCIL.
I GUESS WHAT ARE THE CHANGES OR THINGS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO MODIFY OR ADD? ADDITIONAL ITEMS, SO THERE IS A LIST THAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING FOR THE QUARTERLY REPORTS TO INCLUDE.
I WANT TO ADD ADDITIONAL ITEMS. IF YOU SHARE THE SCREEN, I CAN PULL IT UP.
IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE ON. WHAT ADDITIONAL ITEMS OR IS IT THIS LETTER THAT'S BEEN ATTACHED? SO THE LETTER, ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO BE TO HAVE FOR THE QUARTERLY MEETING.
I GUESS, WHAT ARE THEY, OR IS THIS LIST EVERYTHING? SO I'M GOING TO A LOT OF ADD SOME ITEMS TO THIS LIST.
I'M GOING TO LOOK AT WHAT OTHER CITIES DO, HOW IT IS PRESENTED, WHAT, WHAT ELSE THEY INCLUDE.
LIKE THEY INCLUDE THE PENSION. IF WE'RE ON TRACK WITH THAT.
THEY INCLUDE, THERE'S MORE THINGS THAT I'VE SEEN THAT IT'S INCLUDED.
AND IF WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE A LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS, WHAT SHOULD BE IN A QUARTERLY REPORT, I MIGHT AS WELL HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE LIST. SO THAT'S MY THOUGHT PROCESS.
BUT IT IS UP TO THE COMMISSION HOW YOU WANT TO PROCEED.
SO I WANT TO GO OVER THIS LETTER AGAIN AND POSSIBLY ADD A LITTLE MORE DEPTH INTO IT. GOTCHA. SO THE TWO APPROACHES WOULD BE YOU AND COMMISSIONER SHERBIN WORKED AGAIN TOGETHER.
SUBCOMMITTEE. YOU WORK TOGETHER, AND THEN YOU WOULD JUST SEND THE LETTER FORWARD AND NOT THROUGH THE CITY, SO WE WOULDN'T VIOLATE THE BROWN ACT, OR YOU WOULD WRITE IT AND YOU WOULD BRING IT BACK FOR US TO REVIEW, AND THEN WE WOULD SEND IT IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. OKAY. SO, IT DOESN'T, OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T MATTER TO ME BECAUSE I ALREADY I ALREADY READ IT.
[00:10:05]
I ALREADY SENT IT ON MY BEHALF. JUST A QUICK QUESTION IS TIME OF THE ESSENCE IN THIS IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL IS AGENDA IS AND IF THAT IF THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN MORE QUICKLY, THEN MAYBE THAT WOULD BE AN INDICATION OF HOW WE SHOULD PROCEED.I WOULD RATHER DO IT QUICKLY THAN NOT QUICKLY.
OTHERWISE THERE'S. YEAH, IT'S JUST GOING TO BECAUSE IF I JUST DO IT WITH YOU, FOR EXAMPLE, THEN WE CAN SEND IT PROBABLY BY TUESDAY, BY NEXT TUESDAY, RIGHT? BUT IF WE WAIT UNTIL EVERYONE APPROVES, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO COME BACK IN A MONTH.
HERE. APPROVES. AND THEN SEND IT. SO IT'S A MONTH DELAY.
FOR WHAT PURPOSE? WHY ARE WE DELAYING? WELL, MY ONLY CONCERN IS IF IT GOES OUT UNDER THE NAME OF THE OF THE COMMISSION, THAT IT THAT EVERYONE ON THE COMMISSION HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE FINAL RESULT AND AT LEAST EXPRESS THEIR CONCURRENCE OR NOT. SO THAT'S A SIMILAR PROCESS WHEN YOU WROTE YOUR LETTER, REMEMBER YOU WROTE A LETTER AND WE SENT.
THAT'S HOW WE DID IT. IT WAS LIKE YOU AND I GOT TOGETHER.
WE WROTE THE LETTER AND THEN YOU SENT IT. REMEMBER THAT? SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO COME BACK SO THAT AGAIN, I'M NOT ASKING FOR SURE.
NO, THAT'S WHAT WE DID LAST TIME, AND IT WORKED WELL.
GOTCHA. IF IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THIS AND YOU'RE JUST ADDING ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO BE INCLUDED. ME PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE ANY STRONG FEELINGS EITHER WAY. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE.
I WOULD JUST SAY, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. SO YOU'RE GOING TO GET OTHER CITIES LETTERS OR IDEAS FOR THIS QUARTERLY BUDGET UPDATES AND USE THAT AS A SAMPLE TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE INCLUDING EVERYTHING THAT WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO FOR THIS ONE OPPORTUNITY, WE HAVE TO PRESENT THIS. SO ARE YOU ASKING US FOR THE PROCESS, MEANING WE HAVE TO HAVE OUR APPROVAL TO DO THIS, OR FOR YOU TO JUST BE ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND PUT THIS TOGETHER ON YOUR OWN, AND THEN WE'LL COME AND MEET NEXT MONTH AND SAY, OKAY, YES, THIS ALL LOOKS GOOD, LET'S MOVE FORWARD. SO WE HAVE TWO CHOICES.
AND IN THE PAST, WHAT WE'VE DONE IS I THINK IT WAS YOU AND I, IT WAS COMMISSIONER SHERBIN AND I GOT TOGETHER, WE WROTE A LETTER, AND THE COMMISSION AGREED THAT WE'RE KIND OF LIKE A SUBCOMMITTEE.
WE'RE GOING TO WRITE A LETTER. AND THEY AGREED, AND THAT WE WERE GOING TO SEND IT OVER TO COUNCIL.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID. NO BRAIN SURGERY, RIGHT? WE WROTE A LETTER, TWO OF US. THE COMMISSION AGREED THAT THEY TRUST THAT TWO OF US WILL WRITE THE LETTER AND SEND IT TO COUNCIL, THAT'S WHAT WE DID. HOWEVER, IF WE WHAT HAPPENED THIS PREVIOUS TIME IS I THINK IT WAS COMMISSIONER SHERBIN WANTED THE COMMITTEE TO EVERYONE TO GET A CHANCE TO REVIEW AND COMMENT.
I SEE. AND THAT'S DELAYING THINGS FOR A MONTH.
GOT IT. SO IS THERE A PROCESS IN WHICH WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT APPROVAL PROCESS AND.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE IN PREVIOUS TIMES.
OKAY. AND OBVIOUSLY, THE BENEFIT OF THAT IS JUST THE TIME, RIGHT.
BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T READ IT, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T READ IT ANYWAY. YEAH.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER CHANGES THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE TO THIS LETTER, ASIDE FROM ADDING IN ADDITIONAL THINGS TO THE QUARTERLY BUDGET UPDATES? SINCE YOU'RE SAYING THAT, LET ME SO ONE THING I DO WANT TO INCLUDE IS THAT THIS IS A STANDARD.
OKAY. NEW. IT'S NOT SOMETHING OUT OF, YOU KNOW, EXTRA WORK OR, THIS IS WHAT INDUSTRY DOES.
OKAY, GREAT. SO, I WANT TO ADD THAT. AND THEN ALSO FOR COUNCIL, I WOULD BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE PRIVATE SECTOR EXPERIENCE, INCLUDING OUR COUNCIL, THEY ALL HAVE PRIVATE, YOU KNOW, NO ONE'S BEEN IN A GOVERNMENT FINANCE BEFORE.
I DO WANT TO INCLUDE A QUICK PARAGRAPH EXPLAINING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIVATE AND PUBLIC, LIKE IN PRIVATE SECTOR THEY WORRY ABOUT THE MARGINS.
IN A PUBLIC SECTOR WE GET PROPERTY TAXES EVERY YEAR.
IT JUST ROLLS IN, RIGHT? SALES TAXES OR BUSINESS LICENSE TAXES.
[00:15:01]
SO IT'S A, WHAT, THAT'S WHY WHAT THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES IN FINANCE IS DIFFERENT THAN PUBLIC SECTOR AND PUBLIC SECTOR.IT'S REALLY ABOUT REPORTING AND TRACKING. SO THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK I NEED TO EXPLAIN TO COUNCIL.
SO THEY'RE NOT THINKING OH MY GOSH I'M GIVING THEM ALL THIS WORK.
IT'S LIKE NO THIS IS WHAT PUBLIC SECTOR DOES.
OKAY. SO IT IS UP TO YOU. I'M HAPPY TO VOICE MY OPINION.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM. I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE IT FALL ON THE SHOULDERS OF PERHAPS TWO PEOPLE, AS YOU MENTIONED. I THINK SUBCOMMITTEE IS THE TERMINOLOGY YOU USE.
I'M HAPPY WITH MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT. I WOULDN'T WANT YOU TO TAKE ON THAT ROLE INDIVIDUALLY, BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO JUST HAVE A SECOND PAIR OF EYES ON IT, JUST FOR DUE DILIGENCE.
BUT IF THE SUBCOMMITTEE IS THE WAY TO EXPEDITE THE PROCESS, I DON'T.
MY PERSONAL OPINION IS I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
SO SUBCOMMITTEE CAN HAVE UP TO THREE PEOPLE, WHO WOULD LIKE TO.
SO UP TO THREE PEOPLE, YEAH. SO EXCLUDING MYSELF, TWO OTHER PEOPLE CAN HELP ME WITH THE LETTER.
WHO WOULD LIKE TO VOLUNTEER? WOULD YOU LIKE TO VOLUNTEER? I WOULDN'T MIND, ACTUALLY. IT WOULD HELP ME KIND OF GAIN SOME EXPERIENCE A LITTLE BIT.
OKAY. SURE. DO WE NEED TO. LET'S MAKE A MOTION.
MOTION? IS THERE A MOTION TO HAVE MYSELF, COMMISSIONER JESTE AND COMMISSIONER.
TURNER. TURNER. TURNER, TO HAVE A SUBCOMMITTEE FINALIZE THE LETTER TO SEND TO THE COUNCIL? SECOND. THERE'S A MOTION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIED. IS THAT. OH, THAT WAS SOMETHING ELSE.
ALL RIGHT, SO NEXT ITEM IS CIP PROJECTS REPORTED BY PROJECT SUMMARY.
COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS. SOMEONE. OKAY, SO THIS ONE COMMISSIONER JESTE, WE BROUGHT THIS BACK BECAUSE YOU ASKED. YEAH. I THINK LAST MONTH OUR FINANCE DIRECTOR WAS VERY HELPFUL IN GIVING US MORE DATA ON ALL THE COMPLETED PROJECTS, THAT SPREADSHEET CAME IN HANDY, AND I'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THE NUMBERS AND TRYING TO MAKE SOME SENSE.
AND THIS IS WHAT I HAVE DISCOVERED SO FAR. THE INITIAL APPROPRIATIONS WERE ALMOST $10 MILLION FOR THE COMPLETED PROJECTS, 9,978,668.
SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATIONS WERE $46,913,118. SO TOTAL APPROPRIATIONS WERE 56,891,000. THE INITIAL APPROPRIATIONS AMOUNTED TO LESS THAN 20% OF WHAT THE PROJECT'S COST BY THE TIME THEY WERE COMPLETED. AND MY CONCERN IS WE INVITE BIDS, COMPETITIVE BIDS FOR THAT 20%.
ALL THE OTHER 80%, BECAUSE WE KEEP ADDING MORE CHANGES, MY IMPRESSION IS THAT ALL THOSE ALL THAT WORK AUTOMATICALLY GOES TO THE CONTRACTOR WHO HAS BEEN SELECTED.
SO THAT GIVES THE CONTRACTORS WHO WIN THE JOBS TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO BOOST THEIR PROFITS, AND IN THE PROCESS, WE END UP LOSING. AND JUST GIVE YOU A GOOD EXAMPLE, I WENT THROUGH SOME PROJECTS THAT I WENT THROUGH, SOME MORE DETAILS FOR EXAMPLE, THE ANITA STREET AT PCH TO MARIA AVENUE, STREET IMPROVEMENTS.
JOB NUMBER 41240. INITIAL APPROPRIATED AMOUNT WAS 400,000.
SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATIONS WERE $2.1 MILLION. TOTAL CAME TO $2.5 MILLION, AND THE PROJECT SPENDING AS OF WRITING WAS $730,000. THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE WAS 250,000, WHICH WAS PRETTY ACCURATE BECAUSE THE BIDS THAT THE CITY RECEIVED THREE BIDS, THEY WERE BETWEEN 213,800 TO 228,520, SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
[00:20:02]
LOWEST AND THE HIGHEST BIDDER WAS 7.5%. SO THE LOWEST BIDDER, HARDY & HARPER, WON THE JOB. AND RIGHT AFTER THAT WHEN THEY STARTED WORK.THIS IS THE TIMELINE, THE WORK AUTHORIZATION, THE BIDS WERE SUBMITTED AND OPENED IN FEBRUARY, I THINK. AND THEN. YEAH, BIDS RECEIVED BY FEBRUARY 15TH.
MARCH 5TH. THAT WAS 2024 LAST YEAR. CONTRACT WAS AWARDED TO HARDY & HARPER FOR 213,000.
AND JUNE 6TH, THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED CHANGE ORDER 1 FOR 104,000.
CONSTRUCTION BEGAN ON JUNE 10TH. JUNE THROUGH AUGUST.
CITY ENGINEER AUTHORIZED CHANGE ORDER NO. 2 FOR 22,000.
THAT WAS WITHIN HIS AUTHORITY BECAUSE HE AUTHORIZED TO APPROVE CHANGES UP TO 25,000.
AND AFTER THE CONTRACT AWARD BETWEEN AUGUST AND OCTOBER, THERE WERE TWO MORE.
CHANGE ORDERS NO. 3 AND NO. 4. TOTAL PRICE WAS 371,000, AND THE PROJECT WAS COMPLETED AT 711,000. SO WHAT STARTED AT 213,000, THE CONTRACTOR ENDED UP MAKING 711,000 BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE ORDERS 3 AND 4. AND THE 3 AND 4 CAME ABOUT, IF YOU DIG EVEN DEEPER INTO THAT, IT SAYS OKAY. DEFINITELY THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED CHANGE ORDER TO UPGRADE THE MEDIAN DESIGN AND TO PAVE EXTRA ROADWAY ALONG ANITA TO IMPROVE VISIBILITY AND BRINGING THE TOTAL COST UP TO $711,000. SO THE WAY I READ THE WHOLE DOCUMENT ON THIS SPECIFIC PROJECT, AND MY IMPRESSION IS THAT THIS WAS, I THINK, BECAUSE WE RECEIVED SOME FUNDING FROM THE METRO, I THINK, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG STEPHANIE, IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION.
YEAH. SO WE HAD SOME ADDITIONAL FUNDING. SO THE CITY THOUGHT THAT IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO DO SOME MORE WORK. BUT THEN AGAIN, THESE ARE STILL TAXPAYERS DOLLARS.
SO TO GO FROM 213,000 TO 711,000, HE DID NOT HAVE ANY COMPETITION, AND WE SIMPLY AWARDED. AND THIS IS NOT JUST ONE PROJECT. I WENT THROUGH FOUR DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND IT'S THE SAME STORY.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE 41140, THE PROJECT.
THAT WAS THE SLURRY. YEAH. SLURRY SEALING COLD MILL OR OVERLAY DIG OUTS CRACKS. THE INITIAL APPROVED APPROPRIATED AMOUNT WAS 579,000.
SUBSEQUENT APPROVALS WERE 3,181,000. SO IT WENT FROM UNDER 600,000 TO $3 MILLION.
SO. AND THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE WAS $600,000.
SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT.
THERE IS NO POLICY OR PROCEDURE FOR GETTING COMPETITIVE BIDS ON ALL THE SUBSEQUENT CHANGES. AND I CAN UNDERSTAND SOME CHANGES ARE INTEGRAL WITH THE, WE FIND SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU START DIGGING, YOU MAY FIND SOME OTHER ISSUES.
THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE. BUT SOME OF THESE PROJECTS I HAVE READ IN MORE DETAIL, IT LOOKED LIKE IT, THEY, THESE, SOME OF THESE ADDITIONAL CHANGES COULD BE BUNDLED INTO ANOTHER PROJECT AND BIDS INVITED FOR THEM.
AND THE REASON I'M BRINGING THIS UP IS BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE THE BOND THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE VOTERS,
[00:25:09]
TAXPAYERS FOR SOMETHING LIKE $93 MILLION FOR.93,35. FIVE STATIONS IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
I JUST SHUDDER TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT PROJECT IS GOING TO END UP WITH IF WE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE SAME PLANNING AND EXECUTION OF PROCESS THAT WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING FOR 50 YEARS ALMOST, NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
AND, THE WHOLE WORLD HAS CHANGED. TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED.
AND I THIS IS WHY I WROTE A LETTER TO THE MAYOR AND I TALKED ABOUT AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT IN THESE MEETINGS ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE STREAMLINED, SIMPLIFIED PROCESS ALONG THE TQM METHODOLOGY AND PHILOSOPHY, TOTAL QUALITY MANAGEMENT.
AND I HAVE GIVEN THE EXAMPLE OF THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE, INDIANA, THAT HAD A NEW MAYOR WHO CAME WITH THIS BACKGROUND, AND HE IMPLEMENTED SOME OF THESE CHANGES. AND IN THE FIRST THREE YEARS, THE CITY SAVED $3 MILLION JUST BY STREAMLINING, SIMPLIFYING AND ELIMINATING DUPLICATION, FRAUD, AND WASTE.
AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT BADLY NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE BECAUSE EVEN TO GET THE DATA THAT WE GOT, IT TOOK ME ALMOST TWO YEARS AND WE GET. AND I'VE DONE THIS THE TQM METHODOLOGY I'VE IMPLEMENTED IN THREE DIFFERENT COMPANIES, AND YOU GET A LOT OF RESISTANCE. THAT'S HUMAN NATURE.
RESISTANCE TO CHANGE, BUSINESS AS USUAL. AND UNTIL NOW, THIS CITY HAS HAD NO MAJOR CATASTROPHE, NO MAJOR CALAMITY AND NO FIRES, NO EARTHQUAKES, NO FLOODING, NO RIOTS.
SO WE'VE HAD A PRETTY GOOD ALL THESE YEARS. THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR WE ARE HAVING BUDGET DEFICIT, AND NOW WE ARE DOING SOME BUDGETARY TRICKS TO HIDE IT AND TREAT IT LIKE BUSINESS AS USUAL.
AND THAT HAS GOT TO CHANGE. AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CHANGE IS FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE WILLINGNESS TO MAKE CHANGE AND THEN REALLY GET SERIOUS ABOUT MAKING THAT CHANGE.
BUT ESPECIALLY WITH THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS, WE GOT OVER $90 MILLION IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, HUGE AMOUNT WE'RE SPENDING. THAT'S OVER AND ABOVE THE 93 MILLION FOR THE FIRE STATIONS AND POLICE HEADQUARTERS.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 180 CLOSE TO $200 MILLION IF THAT GOES OUT OF WHACK, JUST LIKE ALL THESE PROJECTS HAVE STARTED WITH A 25, 250,000 AND END UP ALMOST FOUR TIMES THAT MUCH.
SO IF THAT HAPPENS WITH THESE ANY OF THESE PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE, WE'RE REALLY IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.
AND AGAIN, THE FOUR PROJECTS I LOOKED AT IN EVERY PROJECT, THE CITY GOT FUNDING FROM METRO OR SOME OTHER GRANTS OR THESE SALES TAX REVENUES, THOUGH THOSE GRANTS AND THOSE THAT FUNDING IS GOING TO DRY UP BECAUSE THE STATE IS FACING $18 BILLION DEFICIT. NOW THEY CAN PLAY ALL THE TRICKS AND DO THE MAGIC, TRY TO HIDE IT. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP MUCH. PLUS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANY HELP FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
AND WE GOT TO COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT IF WE JUST KEEP RUBBER STAMPING EVERYTHING HERE, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. AND YOU CAN IMAGINE JUST TO GET THE DATA WE GOT, IT TOOK US ALMOST TWO YEARS AND THE WHOLE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROCESS, THE PLANNING, THE EXECUTION, THAT HAS NOT CHANGED IN YEARS AND I SUSPECT MAYBE 50 YEARS.
SO IF WE START WITH 20%, THEN ADD ANOTHER 80% THROUGH ALL THESE CHANGE ORDERS.
THAT'S REALLY GOING TO HURT US BADLY IN THE IN THE FUTURE.
AND WE HAVE GOT TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. AND SOME OTHER EXAMPLES I CAN TELL YOU THAT I LOOKED AT.
[00:30:09]
BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING I CAN DO WITH MY TEN-YEAR-OLD PC AND NOT HAVING ANY ANALYTICAL SOFTWARE PROGRAMS. SO I THINK, AND PLUS, WE NEED A LOT MORE TIME TO DIG INTO ALL THESE THINGS AND FIND OUT WHERE WE CAN ELIMINATE THE DUPLICATION OR WASTE, WHERE WE CAN ELIMINATE ANY POSSIBILITY OF FRAUD OR CORRUPTION OR MISMANAGEMENT.AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH EVERY GOVERNMENT PROJECT, STATE, FEDERAL, SO.
ONE IS FOR A TQM KIND OF OVERLAY FOR MANAGEMENT PRACTICE.
AND THE SECOND ONE IS A REVIEW OF THIS CIP FUNCTION.
AND I THINK YOU'VE PRESENTED INDIANA AS A NICE MODEL.
NOW MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN GET WITH RESPECT TO THEIR CIP PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE DEVELOPED THROUGH THEIR QUALITY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. THAT COULD HELP US. MAYBE I DON'T KNOW IF THAT INFORMATION.
TQM PHILOSOPHY APPLIES TO EVERYTHING IN BUSINESS, EVERYTHING.
OKAY. NOT JUST CAPITAL PROJECTS OR EVEN PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT.
WELL, SPECIFICALLY, IF I'M JUST SAYING SPECIFICALLY IF YOU COULD GET THE INFORMATION THAT THEY, THEY USE AND. THAT WAS 75 YEARS AGO AND AGAIN, EVEN IN THE TQM ARENA, A LOT OF THINGS THAT.
BECAUSE I THINK BEST PRACTICE, LET'S LOOK FOR SOME BEST PRACTICES.
THAT'S I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. AND IF YOU'RE PROPOSING THAT THEY'VE GOT SOME BEST PRACTICES, THEN LET'S DO THAT. BUT I THINK OTHERWISE, THEN MAYBE WE CAN OPEN IT UP AND SAY, MAYBE THERE'S ANOTHER MODEL, A MORE CURRENT MODEL. THERE ARE SOME THINGS WHICH ARE PRETTY OBVIOUS.
LIKE WHEN I SAID 80% OF THE SPENDING WAS FROM SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATIONS THAT AMOUNTED TO 80%.
SO IT'S NOT ROCKET. SCIENCE IS NOTHING NEW. AND I HAVE DONE THIS WITH PEOPLE WHO HAD NO TRAINING, NO BACKGROUND IN THIS. WE JUST SAID, OKAY, WHAT IS THE PROCESS? AND EVERY TIME. AND THAT WAS IN ENGINEERING, THAT WAS IN PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT, THAT WAS IN CUSTOMER SERVICE AREAS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS. BUT THAT PHILOSOPHY WORKS EVERYWHERE.
IN EVERY LITTLE THING YOU DO, YOU CAN SIMPLIFY AND FIND WAYS TO ELIMINATE WASTE AND INEFFICIENCY AND BUREAUCRACY, AND. I'M JUST KIND OF STRUGGLING ON WHAT OUR NEXT STEP WOULD BE IN A, IN THIS CASE.
AND THEN THE, THE SOMEBODY WHO CAN POINT OUT SOME OF THE AREAS OF WEAKNESS OR SOME DUPLICATION OR SOME WASTE OR SOME DUPLICATION. SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT THE AUDITOR CAN DETERMINE.
THEN WE CAN BRING A TQM OR A TOTAL QUALITY EXPERT, AND HE CAN REVIEW ALL THE INTERNAL PROCESSES AND SEE IF THEY CAN BE SIMPLIFIED AND STREAMLINED AND MADE MORE EFFICIENT, SO.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION? SO, THE AUDITOR THAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO AUDIT? ARE THEY GOING TO AUDIT THE PROCESS THAT THEY GO THROUGH FOR THE, FOR THESE PROJECTS.
SO, WHAT I HAVE DONE. I'LL UNDERSTAND IS IF I ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND I'M NEW, SO PLEASE DON'T, I DON'T MEAN ANY HARM. BUT JUST IN LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED US RIGHT ON THIS, THE REPORT, THE CIP REPORT HERE, THAT PROJECT NUMBERS 41240.
RIGHT. THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS, 250,000, THE CONSTRUCTION BID AWARD.
SO THE BID CAME IN UNDER WHAT THE ESTIMATE WAS.
RIGHT. BUT THEN THE FINAL PROJECT COST ENDED MORE THAN DOUBLED.
WHAT THAT ESTIMATE WAS FOR, RIGHT. AND AGAIN, I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER IN PUBLIC SECTOR, BUT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, IF I WAS GOING TO REMODEL MY HOUSE, I WOULD GO TO THE CONTRACTOR AND I WOULD SAY, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT I'M THINKING OF DOING. CAN YOU GENERATE A BLUEPRINT OR A PROPOSAL? AND THEN ONCE I HAVE, ONCE I HAVE A GENERAL IDEA, YOU CAN GO OUT AND GET COMPETITIVE BIDS FROM THREE DIFFERENT CONTRACTORS, RIGHT. AND YOU AWARD THE JOB TO THE MOST, YOU KNOW, THE BEST FIT.
[00:35:01]
YOU KNOW, GENERALLY NOT THE CHEAPEST, GENERALLY NOT THE MOST EXPENSIVE, BUT THE BEST OVERALL FIT.RIGHT. AND THAT WEREN'T INCLUDED IN THAT PROPOSAL.
IS THAT CORRECT? RIGHT. SO WHAT'S HAPPENING, IT LOOKS LIKE, AGAIN, FROM MY UNEXPERIENCED, INEXPERIENCED PERSPECTIVE, IS THE INITIAL PROPOSAL THAT WE'RE GIVING THESE CONTRACTORS IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THE FINAL WORK IS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY WANTING TO HAVE DONE. RIGHT. SO IT'S LIKE, HEY, WE WANT YOU TO DO THIS.
AND THEN THEY DO THIS AND WE SAY, OH, WELL, ACTUALLY, WE WANT ALL THESE ADDITIONAL BELLS AND WHISTLES PUT ON THAT'S GOING TO INCREASE THE COST OF THE PROJECT, DOUBLING IT. AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK ONE OF ONE OF YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS WAS REALLY MORE.
RIGHT. IT'S NOT COMING BACK FOR A COMPETITIVE BID FOR THAT.
SO I GUESS MY VERY LENGTHY QUESTION HERE IS THE AUDITOR THAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING.
IS IT TO AUDIT THE PROCESS? IS IT. THE PAST PROJECTS.
OR PAST PROJECTS, OR LIKE THE DISCREPANCY IN THE FUNDING? I JUST WANTED. THE AUDITOR, I THINK IS A FANTASTIC IDEA.
I JUST WANT TO KNOW IN WHICH AREA WE'RE GOING TO BE APPLYING THE AUDITOR.
IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WE COULD PROBABLY USE A FEW OF THEM, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
THERE'S A LOT OF DOCUMENTATION ON ALL THESE PROJECTS, AND TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT AND TRY TO MAKE SOME SENSE AND THEN FIND WAYS OR OPPORTUNITIES FOR STREAMLINING, SIMPLIFYING AND ELIMINATING WASTE IS WHAT SHOULD BE THE EDICT FOR THAT AUDITOR, IN MY OPINION. AND I THINK IF YOU DO THAT, I THINK YOU MIGHT.
WHEN YOU START DIGGING INTO THIS, YOU MIGHT. ONE MORE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ON THAT FOR ONE, TWO, FOUR. OH. I JUST SAW HERE THE FUNDING BECAME AVAILABLE I THINK FROM THE CONSTRUCTION IMPROVE OPERATIONS.
DURING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROJECT, THE PROJECT EXPERIENCED SEVERAL DELAYS THAT WERE OUTSIDE CONTRACTORS CONTROL, INCLUDING PERMITS REQUIRED BY CALTRANS AND PCH INTERSECTION OF TRAFFIC CONTROL AND NEW SIGNAL.
ADDITIONALLY, CITY COUNCIL APPROVED A CHANGE ORDER TO UPGRADE THE MEDIAN DESIGN TO TWO LANES, BRINGING THE TOTAL COST TO 711,000, WHICH WAS FULLY FUNDED BY METRO R FUNDS.
SO APPARENTLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE CITY GOT THESE FUNDS AND THEY SAID, HEY, WE GOT THE MONEY.
SO NOW THAT THE ORIGINAL PHASE HAS BEEN COMPLETED ACCORDING TO WHAT THE INITIAL DESCRIPTION OF THE PROJECT WAS, AND THEY TOLD THE CONTRACTOR WE GOT ANOTHER FIVE, $600,000.
WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND MAKE ALL THESE IMPROVEMENTS? WE GOT THE MONEY. SO HE SAID WONDERFUL. SO HE DID THE WORK, SUBMITTED THE BILL, AND WE APPROVED IT.
THERE WAS NO COMPETITIVE BIDDING. AND THIS IS WHAT I'M ARRIVING AT.
AND THIS IS HAPPENING IN EVERY PROJECT. BECAUSE IF THE INITIAL APPROPRIATION WAS ONLY 20% OF THE TOTAL, 80% OF THE MONEY IS BEING AWARDED WITHOUT GETTING ANY COMPETITIVE BIDS.
WELL, A QUESTION IF THE PROJECT'S PROCEEDING AND THERE'S ANY QUESTION ABOUT THE QUALIFICATIONS OR THE INTEGRITY OR THE PROCESS AT THAT POINT, I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE WHERE THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD SAY, YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF OF THE AGREEMENT OR AT LEAST AT THE POINT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING SOMETHING. ADDITIONALLY, IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH THE FIRST PART OF THE PROJECT, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONTINUE WITH THE SAME CONTRACTOR FOR ANY OF THE CHANGE NOTICES? IT'S NOT THE FAULT OF THE CONTRACTOR, IT'S THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED.
IN FACT, I MENTIONED ABOUT THIS TO THE MAYOR.
IF YOU'RE HAPPY WITH THE WORK THE CONTRACTOR DID INITIALLY, WHY WOULDN'T YOU CONTINUE ON IN THE SAME PROJECT WITH THE SAME CONTRACTOR? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. BUT THERE IS NO COMPETITIVE BIDDING.
YES. THOSE TWO SEEM LIKE THEY'RE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED.
WE HAVE TO END ONE PROJECT AND START ANOTHER ONE.
AND THEN IF THERE ARE CHANGES, CHANGE ORDERS 2, 3 AND 4, THEY COULD BE COMBINED INTO ANOTHER PROJECT AND SAY, WE'RE GOING TO INVITE BIDS. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO SEPARATE ISSUES, I THINK ONE IS CHANGE ORDERS, AND THEN THE OTHER IS HAVING ADDITIONAL FUNDS LEFT OVER TO THEN PUT TOWARDS ADDING ADDITIONAL THINGS TO PROJECTS,
[00:40:07]
RIGHT. THEY'RE COMPLETELY SEPARATE. CHANGE ORDER.CHANGE ORDERS IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT PROJECT. YEAH, IF.
YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. INITIATED BECAUSE THEY DISCOVER A PROBLEM, THEN I CAN UNDERSTAND.
IT'S LIKE YOU TAKE THE CAR TO YOUR MECHANIC AND HE OPENS THE ENGINE UP AND HE SAYS, WELL, YOU GOT TO DO THIS, THIS AND THIS. NOW YOU GOT ALL THE PARTS ON THE TABLE.
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO SAY, OKAY, GO AHEAD.
SO THAT'S ONE THING, BUT WE GOT THE MONEY. SO LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO WITH THE MONEY.
CORRECT. THAT SHOULD BE WHERE WE SHOULD DRAW THE LINE AND SAY.
IT'S A NEW PROJECT. LET'S COMPLETE THIS PROJECT, CLOSE IT, AND THEN START ANOTHER ONE.
AND THERE ARE THREE PROJECTS THAT I CAN GIVE YOU EXAMPLES OF WHERE, BECAUSE THE CITY GOT THE MONEY THEY DECIDED TO DO ALL THESE IMPROVEMENTS AND JUST LET THE CONTRACTOR CONTINUE.
AND THIS IS WHAT I'M GETTING AT. ABOVE AND BEYOND THE ORIGINAL SCOPE OF WORK.
EXACTLY, EXACTLY. SO I'LL JUST SAY I'D HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY, I'M FORGETTING, BUT I THINK IN SOME CASES, THESE ARE LIKE PRIORITY PROJECTS THAT COUNCIL IS INTERESTED IN DOING, WHICH IS WHY THE CITY SAID, I THINK JESSE REFERRED, OR THE CAPITAL PROJECTS MANAGER REFERRED TO THAT.
AT SOME POINT WE'VE ALREADY DUG UP THE STREET LIKE WE'RE ALREADY THERE.
THERE'S ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, PIECE OF THE STREET THAT COUNCIL HAS WANTED TO IMPROVE, AND WE HAVE GRANT FUNDS, SO. I'M NOT QUESTIONING YOUR LOGIC. TO YOUR POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE START A NEW PROJECT.
I MEAN, SOME OF THAT I THINK COULD BE SEMANTICS.
I GUESS WE COULD PUT IT IN A DIFFERENT PROJECT INSTEAD OF KIND OF LUMPING THEM ALL TOGETHER, BECAUSE THAT MAKES THE THE NUMBERS LOOK BETTER.
BUT I THINK TO YOUR ANALOGY WITH THE HOUSE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE YOU DO YOUR INITIAL SCOPE AND YOU GET A HUGE BONUS AND YOU REALIZE THAT THE YOU'D LIKE A BETTER BATHROOM, SO YOU GET A BETTER BATHROOM.
IT'S NOT THAT YOUR CONTRACTOR OVERSPENT HIS BUDGET BY 200%.
YOU JUST DECIDED YOU WANTED SOMETHING ELSE. SO, A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS HAVE I AGREE, THEY DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, WE ADD SOME THINGS TO THEM. I GUESS THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT FOR THE MOST PART, I BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE FINDING THE CITY IS FINDING OPPORTUNITIES.
NOT THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING GOES WRONG AND NOW WE'RE TRAPPED WITH A CONTRACTOR.
WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE. WE HAVE TO JUST GIVE THEM MORE MONEY.
SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY. I'M NOT QUESTIONING THE LOGIC.
YOU HAVE BROUGHT REALLY GOOD POINT. AND THE WAY I SEE IT IS WHEN THEY BID THE PROJECT, THEY HAVE TO BID FOR THE ALMOST FOR THE WORST CASE SCENARIO THEY NEED LIKE, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IF ALSO LET'S BID WHAT HAPPENS IF A PIPE BREAKS? WHAT ELSE IS, HOW MUCH MORE IT WILL BE IF THIS.
SO THEY HAVE TO BID INITIALLY FOR A LOT OF IN CASE SCENARIOS AND WHICH THEY DON'T DO.
SO THEY ONLY GO OUT TO BID FOR SOMETHING LITTLE AND THEY'RE LIKE, OH, WE CAN ALSO DO THIS, WE CAN ALSO DO THAT. AND THEN SOMETHING THAT SHOULD COST MILLION DOLLARS END UP COSTING 4 OR $5 MILLION.
MAYBE I MIGHT SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR COME IN AND TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT MORE BEFORE WE GO OUT AND START HIRING CONSULTANTS OR AUDITORS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT.
WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE TOO MUCH TIME OUT OF THEM, BECAUSE THEY DID COME HERE AND EXPLAIN TO US, AND WE HAD A BIG CONVERSATION WITH THEM. THE BOTTOM LINE IS ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.
INITIAL APPROPRIATIONS $10 MILLION. SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATIONS $47 MILLION.
HOW DO WE MAKE THOSE THAT WORK WHERE WE SPEND $47 MILLION? HOW DO WE MAKE IT MORE COST EFFECTIVE? HOW DO WE, CAN WE GET COMPETITIVE BIDS FOR THAT MUCH MONEY WE ARE SPENDING? IF IT IS POSSIBLE, IF WE HAD TO SPLIT THE PROJECTS AND SAY, OKAY, AFTER THE 10 MILLION IS SPENT, THOSE PROJECTS ARE COMPLETE, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO START WITH THE NEW PROJECT.
IS IT POSSIBLE? IS IT FEASIBLE? CAN IT BE DONE? ON SOME PROJECTS, NOT THE OTHERS. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE AUDITOR WILL BE ABLE TO DO.
YEAH. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE LIKE WHAT WILL THE AUDITOR AUDIT? I'M HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE AUDITOR IS GOING TO DO IN THIS CASE.
[00:45:06]
ADDITIONS TO THAT. ALL THE AUDITOR IS GOING TO DO IS SINGLE OUT A PARTICULAR PROJECT IN WHICH THAT PROCESS WAS EITHER NOT FOLLOWED OR FOLLOWED INCOHERENTLY, WHERE MORE MONEY WAS ALLOCATED. THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN. I'M NOT EXPRESSING THAT WELL, BUT I.THE PROCESS SEEMS TO ME TO BE ONE OF FIRST SITTING DOWN WITH PUBLIC WORKS AND CITY COUNCIL TO SAY, WHAT IN THE HECK ARE WHAT IS THE PROCESS THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FOLLOWING, AND WHERE IS IT GOING OFF THE TRACKS? BECAUSE SOMEWHERE IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS GOING OFF THE TRACKS.
BUT LOOKING AT THE TOTAL FIGURES THAT YOU'VE PROVIDED, I CAN'T IDENTIFY A SPECIFIC PROJECT AND PUT A NAME TO THAT PROJECT AND SAY THIS IS WHAT YOU DID, AND THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE.
YOU DID IDENTIFY IT. IT'S NOT THE CONTRACTOR WHO IS INITIATING THESE CHANGE ORDERS.
THAT'S THE FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER. WELL, THE CONTRACTOR COMES BACK WITH A REQUEST TO DO SOMETHING MORE, AND THEN THE CHANGE ORDER IS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, RIGHT? YES OR NO? SOME CHANGE ORDERS. YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE ENGINEER HAS THE AUTHORITY TO APPROVE ANYTHING LESS THAN 25,000.
SO THEY SAID, OKAY, NOW WE GOT THE MONEY. YOU HAVE DONE YOUR WORK.
YOU COMPLETED THE PROJECT. NOW WE WANT TO SPEND THIS MONEY AND THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO, AND GIVE US A. BUT THAT'S THE POINT, THAT'S THE PLACE AT WHICH CITY COUNCIL HAS TO SAY WE'VE GOT OTHER PRIORITIES FOR THIS MONEY, WE. IF WE HAVE MONEY THAT IS, IS NOT GOING TO BE SPENT FOR ANYTHING ELSE.
AND THAT PROJECT PROVIDES SOME BENEFIT. I CAN SEE CITY COUNCIL SAYING LET'S DO IT.
I THINK. AGAIN, I'M JUST STRUGGLING WITH UNDERSTANDING WHAT AN AUDITOR WOULD DO IN THIS CASE.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE END UP SPENDING 460% MORE AT THE END OF THE DAY FOR A BID.
THAT WAS INITIALLY DONE AT AN X AMOUNT. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT SOLUTIONS DO YOU DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE? IT SEEMS THAT THE PROCESS IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT? WHAT THE PROJECT IS GETTING ORIGINALLY BID AT AND THEN WHAT THE FINAL PROJECT RESULTS IN SEEMS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, SO. HOW DO WE CHANGE THAT PROCESS? SO THE INFORMATION THAT WE'RE PROVIDING THE CONTRACTOR TO BID ON.
IS NOT CORRECT. IS NOT INACCURATE, RIGHT. YEP.
BUT AND AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR, SO.
NO. I MEAN THE THING THAT I'M BASING THIS ON IS MY EXPERIENCE IN PRIVATE.
BUT IT'S I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO FIND OUT WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THESE CHANGE ORDERS.
ARE THEY NECESSITY OR ARE THEY DISCRETIONARY, RIGHT.
LIKE WE USE THE EXAMPLE OF THE HOUSE. IS IT THE CITY IS SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT THESE SILVER DOORKNOBS, I PREFER GOLD, LET'S GO WITH GOLD. OR IS IT THE ENGINEER COMING IN AND SAYING, HEY, STRUCTURALLY, THIS IS JUST NOT GOING TO WORK AND WE NEED TO ACTUALLY GET A STRONGER BEAM IN HERE OTHERWISE, THIS IS NOT GOING TO WORK. SO IS IT BASED ON NECESSITY SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO DO.
CAN. IT. CAN STAFF PUT THE EXCEL SHEET ON. IS IT IN THERE, THE CIP? SO WE HAD ASKED THAT QUESTION AND THEY SAID THAT THEY ARE, AND THEY DID.
AND HE PROVIDED HE WENT HE CREATED THIS INCREDIBLE EXCEL FILE AND HE ADDED EVERY SINGLE DETAIL.
SO SO YOU CLICK LIKE HE EVEN INCLUDED LINKS THAT YOU CAN CLICK ON IT.
AND THEN YOU CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT OKAY. WHAT IS THE WHAT IS THE COUNCIL'S PROCESS FOR IT, SO.
I MEAN, ASSUMING IT'S BASED ON NECESSITY, I WOULD ASSUME IT'S JUST.
YES. OKAY. WE IT'S REQUIRED TO MAKE THAT CHANGE ORDER.
BUT IF IT DOES HAPPEN TO FALL UNDER THE DISCRETIONARY FOLDER THERE, WHO HAS THE AUTHORIZATION TO MAKE THAT OR DOES THAT GET VOTED ON BEFORE THEY SAY YES, GO AHEAD AND UPGRADE THE FINISHES ON THIS PROJECT OR.
SO STAFF PRESENTS THE INFORMATION IN A REPORT TO COUNCIL.
COUNCIL HEARS IT AS A BODY AND VOTES TO APPROVE IT OR NOT APPROVE IT.
[00:50:04]
SO THEY MAY HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW, THERE TEND TO BE PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THE CAPITAL PROJECTS OUT THERE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO AND THE FUNDING SOURCES. SO I EXPECT THAT THEY WOULD ASK THOSE QUESTIONS WHEN THEY SEE THE REPORT, THEY MAY CALL UP THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR AND SAY, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY GOING TO BE TRADE OFFS? AND THEN THEY WILL VOTE TO APPROVE OR NOT TO APPROVE? WELL. THERE IS A THRESHOLD AMOUNT THAT GOES TO COUNCIL VERSUS THE CITY MANAGER.ALSO, WHEN IT GOES TO COUNCIL, MOST OF IT'S UNDER CONSENT ITEM.
AND IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN A COUNCIL MEETING IN CONSENT ITEMS, THEY HAVE 10 TO 20 ITEMS THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DISCUSS ON THERE UNLESS THEY PULL IT OUT AND DISCUSS.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE, OKAY, WE TRUST WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING AND THEY APPROVE.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. THAT MAY BE WHAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING GETS AUDITED THEN? THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT NOW THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE BEAR, THEY DO NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND, SO. THEY'RE NOT EXPERTS IN.
RUBBER STAMPING EVERYTHING. AND I'LL GIVE YOU A GOOD EXAMPLE.
THIS IS WHAT I GOT IN WRITING FROM THE MAYOR.
I WROTE TO HIM ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT ITEMS. AND ON THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID. I AGREE THEY ARE CONFUSING.
SOME ARE FUNDED BY GRANTS, SOME ARE OUT OF OUR BUDGET.
SOME ARE DEFERRED PROJECTS. I HAVE RECOMMENDED SOME IMPROVEMENTS SO THEY ARE MORE UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT SO FAR NO CHANGES. THESE ARE HIS WORDS. OKAY, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW CONFUSING.
TO ME, IT DOESN'T SEEM THE ISSUE IS WHERE THE FUNDING IS COMING FROM. IT SEEMS HOW MUCH THE TOTAL AMOUNT IS OR AM I MISUNDERSTANDING? THE FUNDING COMES FROM GRANTS THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE EXCEL FILE THAT THEY PROVIDED.
SO 99% OF THE TIME IT'S COMING FROM GRANTS. SO WE KNOW WHERE THE FUNDING IS.
MAYBE I JUST MISUNDERSTOOD YOU, IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE. FUNDING WAS AVAILABLE FOR THIS PROJECT.
FOR INSTANCE, WHY DID WE NOT GET BIDS FOR THE WHOLE THING INSTEAD OF JUST A VERY SMALL PORTION OF IT? THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND. WHY ONLY $213,000 INSTEAD OF $750,000.
AND WE APPROVED $230,000. AND THE REST OF IT WHATEVER THE CONTRACTOR SAID, WE PAID.
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS, IN MY OPINION.
WELL, OKAY. MY QUESTION, AND AGAIN, BASED ON MY INEXPERIENCE, WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT? RIGHT. AND THE IF THEY GO THROUGH A CHANGE ORDER AND IT'S ABOVE THE THRESHOLD TO JUST GO THROUGH THAT CONSENT OR JUST ASSUMPTION OF APPROVAL AND THE CITY COUNCIL VOTES ON IT AND THEY SAY, YES, WE ALL AGREE WE'RE GOING TO WE WANT TO PAY THE EXTRA MONEY TO DO THIS IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OR WHATEVER IT IS, US AS A COMMISSION HERE.
WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT? THEY VOTED, THEY DID THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.
THEY DID THEIR PROCESS. WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT? CHANGE THE PROCESS. CHANGE. WE RECOMMEND TO CHANGE THE PROCESS.
WHAT HE'S SAYING IS ON A GO FORWARD BASIS, CAN WE IMPROVE THE PROCESS? AND JUST HIRING AN AUDITOR OR A CONSULTANT TO COME IN AND MAP OUR WORKFLOW, OUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS, OR THE BIDDING PROCESS? IS THAT IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS? IF SOMEBODY IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH AND HE UNDERSTANDS HOW THE CITY WORKS, HOW THEY DEVELOPED THE SPECIFICATIONS AND HOW THE CONTRACTORS RESPOND TO THEM, IF SOMEBODY HAS AN INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE WHOLE PROCESS, HE CAN CERTAINLY FIND SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR STREAMLINING AND SIMPLIFYING.
IT'S LIKE IF YOU HAVE A SOFTWARE ISSUE, YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS THE INSIDE OUT OF THE PROGRAM, AND THEN HE WILL PUT HIS FINGER RIGHT ON THE PROBLEM, SO.
SO THEY'RE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH IT. OUR PLANNERS AND OUR CITY MANAGER AND ON DOWN, THEY'RE COMFORTABLE BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 50 YEARS, NOBODY WANTS TO CHANGE IT.
WE USE DIFFERENT CONTRACTORS FOR ALL OF THESE PROJECTS. RIGHT. THERE'S NOT LIKE ONE GROUP.
WE GO OUT AND DO FAIR PUBLIC BIDDING FOR ALL OF THESE PROJECTS.
YES. GOOD. OKAY. SORRY. AGAIN, I'M PROBABLY GOING TO ASK WAY TOO MANY QUESTIONS.
[00:55:01]
YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME, WE DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S SMALL, BUT IT'S SOMETHING SMALL.AND THEN BY THE TIME THE PROJECT ENDS, WE END UP SPENDING 450 OR 460% MORE.
THAT'S THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
AND THEN IN A BID THEY HAVE OPTION A, OPTION B, OPTION C.
SO INSTEAD OF BIDDING I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S LIKE KIND OF A QUICK ANSWER.
EACH PROJECT IS UNIQUE IN MANY RESPECTS AND THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN ANY TWO PROJECTS.
SO I THINK YOU REALLY NEED SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT THE EXPERTISE, AND.
SO INSTEAD OF AN AUDITOR, I GUESS A CONSULTANT, A CONSULTANT THAT CAN COME AND LOOK AT THIS AND ADVISE HOW WE CAN FIX IT SO THAT WE DON'T GO FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM ONE AMOUNT TO 460% MORE.
WELL, IF WE'RE CONFIDENT THAT CITY COUNCIL IS RUBBERSTAMPING SOME OF THESE ADDITIONAL REQUESTS THAT COME IN, THE FIRST THING WE SHOULD DO IS MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL.
THEY'RE NOT. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE SAYING NOW, BASED ON WHAT I KNOW, THAT THEY DO RUBBER STAMP, BUT I'VE HEARD THAT MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES HERE TONIGHT.
OKAY. AND THAT WE CAN DO BEFORE WE HIRE A CONSULTANT, BEFORE WE HIRE AN AUDITOR, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT PROCESS IS WEAK, IF THAT IN FACT IS HAPPENING. THIS IS WHY I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE, BECAUSE IN 2000, IT BECAME ONE OF THE TOP TEN BEST MANAGED CITIES IN THE US.
AND 25 YEARS LATER THIS YEAR, IT IS STILL IN THE TOP TEN.
SO THAT SHOWS YOU SOMETHING THAT IT IS THE BEST MANAGED CITY.
SO AS MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER SAID, LOOK AT THE OR LOOK FOR THE BEST PRACTICES.
AND THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS YOU CAN LEARN FROM HOW OTHER CITIES FUNCTION, HOW THEY MANAGE THESE CAPITAL PROJECTS, HOW TO DO, HOW NOT TO DO. WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT.
MAYBE HE'LL GIVE US AN IDEA AND THEN WE CAN CONTINUE WITH OUR DISCUSSION.
CAN WE PUBLIC COMMENT I HAVE JIM MUELLER, PLEASE.
AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE CONTRACTORS WHO GET USED TO THE SYSTEM.
THEY BID LOW BECAUSE THEY KNOW CHANGE ORDERS ARE EASY, AND I CAN TELL YOU THE LEVEL THAT THIS CITY IS EXPERIENCING OF CHANGE ORDERS IS WAY OUT OF CONTROL. AND I KNOW THAT THE CITY COUNCIL DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THE MEANS, THE BACKGROUND AND ALL THAT TO REVIEW THESE CONTRACTS.
SO THEY HAVE TO RELY ON WHAT THE THE CONSTRUCTION PEOPLE TELL THEM, THEIR CONSTRUCTION PEOPLE.
I KNOW THAT A GOOD WAY TO CONTROL THIS IS TO MAKE A DATABASE OF ALL THE CONTRACTORS AND FIND THE ONES WHO CONSTANTLY GENERATE THE MOST CHANGE ORDERS. AND YOU CAN ALMOST ALWAYS BE SURE THAT THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BIDDING LOW, GETTING IN, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY GET THE HOLE DUG AND THEN THEY FIND XYZ.
WELL, YOU CAN'T UNDIG THE HOLE. YOU GOT TO KEEP GOING.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE CHANGE ORDER COMES IN. AND THEY KNOW THAT.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY'RE ALL THAT WAY. THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE REALLY GOOD.
AND THAT'S WHY IF YOU KEEP TRACK OF THE OF THE CONTRACTORS YOU DEAL WITH, YOU FIND OUT WHO ARE THE GOOD ONES THAT YOU CAN RELY ON AND WHO ARE THE ONES THAT YOU CAN'T USUALLY RELY ON. ANOTHER THING IS TO GO ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE ENGINEERING SIDE OF THE CITY.
WHY AREN'T THE ENGINEERS DESIGNING THE PROJECTS BETTER? AND, YOU KNOW, COMING UP WITH A BETTER ESTIMATE OF THE OF THE PROJECT.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION YOU CAN ASK, YOU KNOW, IS ARE THERE ENGINEERS THAT CAN CONSISTENTLY DESIGN OR, YOU KNOW, UNDERESTIMATE A PROJECT? AND SO THAT'S AN ANGLE YOU CAN LOOK AT.
[01:00:07]
AND I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE AGAIN, THERE'S AN EXPERTISE PROBLEM ON THE POLITICAL SIDE.I DON'T THINK THE POLITICIANS HAVE A LOT OF TECHNICAL EXPERTISE.
IT'S TOTALLY NEW. MOST CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS ARE TOTALLY NEW.
THEY'RE PRESENTED WITH A PROJECT THAT'S TOTALLY NEW, AND THEY DO THEIR BEST TO DESIGN IT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THINGS HAPPEN, AND YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE EVERYTHING WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, IT GOES OUT OF CONTROL. SO SOME OF THE CHANGE ORDERS ARE NORMAL, BUT THERE ARE OTHERS THAT YOU CAN FIX. YOU KNOW, THAT YOU CAN STOP AND KEEPING TRACK OF WHO ARE THE GOOD BIDDERS AND WHO ARE THE QUESTIONABLE BIDDERS.
THAT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN DO. WHAT WE USED TO DO IS WE USED TO QUALIFY THEM.
WHEN A BUNCH OF BIDS WOULD COME IN, WE WOULD QUALIFY, YOU KNOW, A CONTRACTOR.
YOU'RE NOT QUALIFIED FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT BECAUSE YOU'VE GENERATED ON PAST PROJECTS YOU'VE OF THIS KIND, YOU'VE GENERATED SO MANY CHANGE ORDERS THAT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE JUST NOT RELIABLE FOR IT.
SO THAT'S THANK YOU. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE DO YOU MIND IF I ASK YOU A QUESTION JUST BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE, IS THERE AN AVERAGE OR A PERCENTAGE OF INCREASE IN COSTS THAT YOU'VE SEEN, PERHAPS LIKE FROM STARTING ESTIMATE TO FINAL PROJECT COST? IS THERE LIKE AN ACCEPTABLE PERCENTAGE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 30% OR LESS IN CHANGE ORDERS IS ACCEPTABLE, BUT IF IT HITS 60%, THEN THAT'S CONSIDERED TO BE EXCESSIVE.
WELL, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE PROJECTS ARE ALL DIFFERENT.
IF YOU HAVE A PROJECT THAT'S COMPLETELY NEW, THEY'RE GOING TO PUT UP A BUILDING FROM, YOU KNOW, DIGGING THE HOLE TO TEN STORIES. THAT'S A PROJECT THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH AN EXACT ESTIMATE.
BUT IF THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT THEY'VE DONE, AND THIS IS ANOTHER THING THAT THE CITY CAN DO TO KEEP TRACK OF, IF YOU'RE DOING A PROJECT THAT'S BEEN DONE 20 TIMES BEFORE, YOU SHOULD HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST.
AND IF YOU KEEP HAVING MULTIPLE CHANGE ORDERS ON THESE PROJECTS THAT YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG EITHER ON THE ENGINEERING SIDE OR THE BIDDING SIDE. YOU SHOULD FIGURE IT OUT AFTER DOING IT A COUPLE TIMES.
YEAH. YOU CAN'T COME UP WITH A YOU CAN'T SAY, WELL, IF WE GO OVER 10% IT'S BAD.
YOU CAN'T SAY THAT. BUT YOU CAN KEEP TRACK. YOU CAN KEEP IT UNDER CONTROL.
OKAY. THANK YOU. THE THOUGHT ARISES THAT. THANK YOU.
WE SHOULD IN THIS DISCUSSION HAVE THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS SITTING HERE BEING ABLE TO ANSWER SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS, BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS GOING ON THAT WE'RE GUESSING AT, SOME OF OUR GUESSES ARE GOOD AND SOME ARE NOT.
BUT THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, WHO'S BEEN DOING THIS AND CAN HAVE THE ANSWERS ON ARE THERE CONTRACTORS THAT TYPICALLY BID LOW AND THEN COME BACK? RIGHT NOW WE KNOW THAT'S A POTENTIAL PROBLEM.
SO, THEY WERE HERE JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO AND THEY ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS.
BUT WE DIDN'T ASK. THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. YEAH.
I GUESS WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION NOW TO POSSIBLY BE MORE EDUCATED IN THE QUESTIONS WE ASK.
THE PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH BUDGET TIME IS EVERY EVERYTHING IS COMPRESSED INTO ONE MEETING OR TWO MEETINGS, AND WE DON'T REALLY HAVE TIME OR TAKE THE TIME TO ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND, AND PUT THOSE QUESTIONS TO THE EXPERTS WHO ARE HERE TALKING TO US. WELL, TO ASK THE QUESTIONS WE NEEDED DATA.
AND FINALLY, THANKS TO STEPHANIE, WE WERE ABLE TO GET AT LEAST SOMETHING BECAUSE I KEPT SAYING, WE NEED DATA, WE NEED DATA, WE NEED DATA. WITHOUT THE DATA, WE CANNOT EVEN FIGURE OUT WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK.
AND WHERE DO WE NEED TO FOCUS? WELL, I THINK THE DATA THAT YOU PREPARED IS GREAT.
AND THE DISCUSSIONS THAT THE TOPICS THAT WE'VE MENTIONED TONIGHT PUT ME IN A POSITION WHERE I CAN CERTAINLY ASK THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS BETTER QUESTIONS THAN I'VE BEEN ABLE TO BEFORE. OKAY. AND I THINK THAT WE'RE.
READY TO ASK. PROCESS IS NECESSARY BEFORE WE SUGGEST HIRING A CONSULTANT OR AN AUDITOR.
SO IF I CAN SUGGEST SOMETHING, I MEAN, I THINK FROM, FROM THE STAFF SIDE, YOU KNOW, CHAIR ALLEN, I APPRECIATE YOU MENTIONING THAT WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE AND ESPECIALLY THE CAPITAL PROJECTS MANAGER HAS ANSWERED A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
[01:05:08]
I THINK IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR US TO HAVE, FROM THE COMMISSION, MAYBE A LIST OF THESE VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT UP TONIGHT. THAT'S SOMETHING PERHAPS WE CAN PREPARE AND PROVIDE IN ADVANCE AND POSSIBLY CAN ANSWER A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, AND THEN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED TO BRING THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR WHO HAS A LOT OF PRIORITIES BACK HERE.I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT I THINK THESE QUESTIONS SHOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS BEFORE THE MEETING, SO HE KNOWS WHAT HE OR SHE KNOWS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 100%.
WE COULD PREPARE THOSE. WE COULD SEND THOSE TO YOU WITHOUT HAVING A MEETING, YOU KNOW, AND SEE IF WE'RE ABLE TO RESPOND ON A LOT OF THOSE SATISFACTORILY. I THINK THAT MAY BE A GOOD STARTING POINT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THAT MEETING DOES TEND TO BE BUSY BECAUSE IT'S FOCUSED ON THE BUDGET, BUT MAY BE ABLE TO BRING THOSE UP IN THAT ENVIRONMENT AS WELL.
THEY DID A LOT OF WORK. THEY CAME AND LISTENED TO US, I THINK, TWICE.
ONE TIME HE EVEN STAYED LONGER THAN HE SHOULD HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT HE'S ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS.
SO WE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS WE'RE ASKING.
I MEAN, I WOULD PREFER THAT WE EMAIL THEM SERIES OF QUESTIONS AND THEY ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND THEN WE TAKE IT FROM THERE. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, LET'S PUT IT IN AN EMAIL.
YEAH, THAT'S FINE. IDEALLY YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH EVERY PROJECT.
AND THAT'S JUST FOUR OUT OF I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY.
SO I HAVE DIFFERENT QUESTIONS FOR DIFFERENT PROJECTS.
BUT I THINK YOU CAN ASK THE GENERAL QUESTION LIKE, WHAT'S THE PROCESS AFTER YOU COMMIT TO A PROJECT? WHAT'S THE PROCESS TO CHANGE THE BUDGET? RIGHT.
SO THAT'S A SPECIFIC QUESTION THAT'S GERMANE TO ALL OF THE PROJECTS.
YOU CAN ALSO ASK, AS JIM SAID, YOU KNOW, DO YOU COLLECT DATA? I GUESS THEY CERTAINLY DO. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S THE, IS THERE A PARTICULAR CONTRACTOR THAT SYSTEMATICALLY UNDERBID? RIGHT. SO THAT IS THERE AN ASSOCIATION BETWEEN A PARTICULAR CONTRACTOR AND THEN GOING OVER BIDDING? I PHRASED THAT BADLY. IS THERE A PARTICULAR, DO SOME CONTRACTORS MATCH WITH CERTAIN KINDS OF PROJECTS THAT TYPICALLY GET EXTENDED? AND THEN IF YOU FIND, IF THEY FIND THAT IN THE $30 MILLION OF CASES WHERE THEY I GUESS IN YOUR NUMBERS YOU SAID THAT 10 MILLION WAS THE INITIAL BID AND THEN THE OVERALL BIDDING WAS 50 MILLION.
SO IT'S $40 MILLION OF EXTRA BIDDING. IF YOU FIND THAT THE $40 MILLION OF EXTRA BIDDING, QUOTE UNQUOTE IS ATTRIBUTABLE TO ONLY SIX CONTRACTORS, THEN IT RAISES INTERESTING QUESTIONS AS TO IS THIS SOMETHING GOING ON IN THE INITIAL DESIGN OF THE PROJECTS? IS THERE SOMETHING GOING ON WITH THE MATCHING OF THE CONTRACTOR TO THE PROJECT, OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE? SO NOT TO BE LONG WINDED, I THINK WE CAN ASK GENERAL QUESTIONS WITHOUT GOING INTO ALL OF THE PROJECTS, BECAUSE THE THEMES THAT WE CARE ABOUT ARE GENERAL, RIGHT? SO AND I'M HAPPY TO SORT OF CONSTRUCT AN EMAIL AND BEGIN THAT PROCESS AS WELL.
[01:10:03]
BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME CONCERNS BROUGHT UP ABOUT PROCESS SPECIFICALLY.THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT BIDDING THERE ARE CONCERNS.
AND THEN THE PATHWAY FORWARD WOULD BE MORE CLEAR.
I THINK FROM A PROCESS STANDPOINT, WE COULD VERY EASILY PICK 2 OR 3 OF THESE ON THIS REPORT HERE THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST VARIANCE BETWEEN INITIAL ESTIMATE AND FINAL COST, AND WE CAN USE THOSE AS OUR CASE STUDY AND REALLY USE THOSE AS A WAY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS PROCESS IS IN TERMS OF WHAT GETS APPROVED ON CHANGE ORDERS AND WHAT DOESN'T, AND WHAT THE INITIAL BIDDING PROCESS IS.
AND THEN ONCE WE HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING AS TO THE WAY THAT THE WAY THE PROCESS SHOULD BE, WE CAN PERHAPS SUGGEST UPDATES AND IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT, AND THEN WE CAN APPLY THAT SAME PROCESS TO THE OTHER PROJECTS THAT SEEM I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE WORD SUSPICIOUS, BUT. YOU ALSO STARTED, I THINK, TO YOUR POINT, YOU STARTED KIND OF GOING THROUGH THESE PROJECTS, THE EXCEL SPREADSHEET UP LIKE ONE OF THEM, WHICH IS THE LARGEST VARIANCE, LIKE THE INITIAL APPROVAL IS N/A, IT'S ZERO, BUT THE PROJECT ENDS UP BEING ALMOST $17 MILLION.
SO THAT 40 MILLION JUMP, 17 OF IT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY IT'S 50150.
THE SANITARY SEWERS, FACILITIES REHAB. SO IT WAS UNDER STORM DRAIN AND WATER WASTEWATER FUND.
SO IT'S SAYING IT JUMPED 40 MILLION MAY NOT REALLY BE THE RIGHT WAY TO LOOK AT IT.
LIKE 17 MILLION WAS THERE. JUST LIKE WE HAVE TO GO FIGURE THIS OUT.
THEN LATER ON AN ADDITIONAL 17 MILLION SHOWED UP.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S NOT ALL PROJECTS ARE QUITE AS BAD AS THEY LOOK.
AND THEN I'M ASSUMING ONCE WE KNOW WE WANT TO DO THAT PROJECT, SO THAT'S WHEN WE FILE TO THE STATE OR OTHER FUNDS TO SAY WHAT GRANTS ARE WE GOING TO GET? THEN ONCE WE GET IT, THEN WE CAN GO, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT THE WHOLE PROJECT LOOKS LIKE. SO I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON THAT WE'RE NOT CAPTURING, WHICH I THINK TO COMMISSIONER WOODHAM'S POINT IS HAVING PUBLIC WORKS HERE TO KIND OF HELP US BETTER UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, WILL HELP US BETTER UNDERSTAND WHERE ALL THESE VARIANCES ARE COMING FROM.
AND THEN CAN, TO YOUR POINT, IS THERE A POSITION WHERE WE SHOULD BETTER UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS? CAN WE IMPROVE THE PROCESS? CAN IT BE DONE INTERNALLY, OR DO WE WANT TO HIRE A THIRD PARTY TO COME IN AND FIX THAT? SO I'M REALLY GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. AND I JUST WANT TO SHARE ONE MORE THING ABOUT THE INITIAL APPROPRIATED AMOUNT THAT EVERYONE FROM THE CITY HAS COMMUNICATED.
SO AS COMMISSIONER MARIN JUST SAID, IT MAY BE OUR INITIAL DESIGN PHASE OR IT MAY BE DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS, COUNCIL SAYS. I WANT TO PUT $200,000 ASIDE FOR THIS PROJECT.
WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO FUND IT. WE'RE NOT SURE ABOUT IT.
I WANT TO SET $200 ASIDE COUNCIL VOTES TO APPROVE THAT.
$200,000 IS WHAT A COUNCIL SAID. HEY, WE WANT TO PUT SOME SEED FUNDING ASIDE TO DO SOME EXPLORATION ON THE PROJECT, SO I THINK I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU AND YOU'LL SEE THIS WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THAT THE INITIAL APPROPRIATED AMOUNT REALLY IS NOT.
IT'S OFTEN JUST A PLACE KEEPER. EXACTLY, IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASES, BUT NOT ALL.
YES. THAT IS A MUCH BETTER, FOR THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE AN ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE.
THAT'S A MUCH BETTER NUMBER TO LOOK AT. IN SIMPLISTIC TERMS, WHAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM? CHANGE ORDERS. WHAT'S THE SOLUTION? ELIMINATE THEM, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE.
SO HOW DO WE MINIMIZE IT? THAT'S ABOUT AS SIMPLE AS IT CAN GET.
YEAH. YEAH. WHAT PART OF THE PROCESS YOU ARE NOT CLEAR ON? RIGHT NOW, IT SEEMS LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE ENGINEERS INITIALLY HAVE ON THE COST OF THE PROJECT IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THE PROJECT ACTUALLY ENDS UP BEING, SO WHAT'S THE DISCREPANCY THERE? IS THE DOES THE ENGINEER NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF THE PROJECT? HE'S ASKING THE THE CONTRACTOR TO DO. OR IS IT THAT YOU KNOW THE CITY, WE START WITH JUST AN INITIAL IDEA AND SAY, OKAY. AND THEN AS CONSTRUCTION IS GOING THROUGH, WE COMPLETELY EXPAND OUR VISION OF THIS PROJECT AND THAT'S WHAT INCREASES THE BUDGET.
OR IS IT A CASE OF THE CONTRACTOR SEES AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET ALL THESE CHANGE ORDERS APPROVED WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, GETTING COMPETITIVE BIDS. AND HE KNOWS THAT THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE UP FOR THE VERY LOW BID THAT HE'S SUBMITTED INITIALLY TO GET AWARDED THIS PROJECT IN THE FIRST
[01:15:05]
PLACE. SO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT'S CAUSING THE.SO YOU YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. WELL, YOU JUST, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS OF A OF A PROJECT, RIGHT? YEAH. CREATE THE PROPOSAL, GET THE BID, BUILD TO THAT BID.
AND THEN THERE'S CHANGE ORDERS THAT ARISE. BUT I GUESS THE PROCESS, PERHAPS THE PROCESS THAT I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING IS WHERE THE CITY IS GETTING THEIR ESTIMATE FOR THE COST OF WHAT THAT PROJECT IS TO SEND TO THE CONTRACTORS TO BID ON.
OKAY. BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S WHERE THE BIGGEST VARIANCE IS.
YEP, YEP. OKAY. I SUSPECT THE ENGINEER DOES NOT EVEN KNOW INITIALLY HOW MUCH FUNDING IS AVAILABLE, WHEN IT WILL BE AVAILABLE AND FROM WHERE. AND SO THIS JUST GROWS AS YOU PROCEED.
AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO PUT BRAKES ON AND SAY, LET'S START FROM GROUND ZERO AND DECIDE HOW MUCH MONEY WE ARE GOING TO SPEND. AND THEN ONCE YOU MAKE THAT DECISION, YOU STICK WITH IT.
EVEN IF ADDITIONAL FUNDING IS AVAILABLE, MAKE THAT A SEPARATE PROJECT.
OR ALSO YOU YOU RECEIVE A GRANT SO YOU WANT TO SPEND IT BEFORE IT EXPIRES.
AND THEN THERE'S MORE GRANT COMING IN. SO YOU KIND OF MAKE UP OTHER STUFF TO DO BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THERE'S MORE GRANT MONEY AVAILABLE. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE WITH THE BUDGET DEFICIT, EVERY PART OF THE GOVERNMENT IS FACING. YOU'RE SAYING THAT WON'T HAPPEN ANYMORE? OKAY. THIS IS WHERE MY INEXPERIENCE IS EXPOSED, SO AGAIN, I'M BASING ALL OF MY INFORMATION HERE.
SO. BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, IN SOME CASES, WE'RE COMING UP WITH A PROPOSAL AND ASKING SOMEONE TO BID ON WITHOUT REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE EXTENT OF THE EXTENSIVENESS OF THE PROJECT IS.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE. THAT'S HOW I UNDERSTAND IT.
OKAY. SO THEN HOW DO WE BETTER UNDERSTAND THE TOTAL SCOPE OF THE WORK WE'RE ASKING THEM TO BID ON BEFORE ACTUALLY STARTING CONSTRUCTION? THAT SEEMS SILLY TO ME. AND AGAIN, THAT MAY VERY WELL BE THE CASE.
I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S OPENING THE FLOODGATES FOR US TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF, RIGHT? LIKE, HEY, WE WANT THIS, LET'S DO IT. BUT WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU HOW YOU DO IT.
TRUST ME, I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. IT ABSOLUTELY COSTS THIS.
IT'LL BE FINE. IT'LL BE. OR THEY BREAK A WALL.
I MEAN, JUST FOR EXAMPLE, THEY BREAK A WALL AND THEN THEY FIND SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT IN A SCOPE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING THAT WHEN YOU WHEN THEY WRITE THE SCOPE FOR THE BID, THEY SHOULD WRITE THE WORST CASE SCENARIO SCOPE.
AND THEN THEY GIVE OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, GIVE ME A BID FOR THIS AND THIS AND THIS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S WHY I SAID THAT. THE PROBLEM WITH THAT PROCESS THOUGH, IS YOU CAN YOU CAN IDENTIFY.
AND MY STEPDAUGHTER JUST HAD A LEAK IN THE ROOF THAT CREATED MOLD.
PART OF THE CEILING FELL IN. WELL, THERE'S NOWHERE IN THE WORLD THAT A CONTRACTOR CAN WALK IN AND SEE THAT AND DO ANYTHING MORE THAN SAY, THIS IS COST PLUS BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE MOLD AND 100% OF THE HOUSE, YOU MAY HAVE MOLD AND 10% OF THE HOUSE.
SO THERE ARE THOSE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF.
AND THEN THERE, YOU ALSO POINTED OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PUBLIC AND PRIVATE AND PUBLIC.
IF YOU FUND THESE PROJECTS WITH GRANTS AND THOSE GRANTS GROW, THEN THAT GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE PROJECT THAT YOU KNOW NEEDED TO BE DONE, BUT YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT THE BEGINNING.
THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE PRIVATE ENTERPRISE WORKS.
IF I'M GOING TO BUILD A BUILDING, I'M GOING TO BUILD A BUILDING. AND IF THE BOSS DESIGNATES THAT MONEY FOR IT, WE DO IT. BUT THERE'S NOT THE TAIL, THERE'S NOT THE PROCESS THAT WE IDENTIFIED IN PUBLIC.
SO THOSE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF AS WELL.
YOU DID A GOOD JOB OF EXPLAINING TO WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.
YOU APPLY FOR IT AND YOU DON'T KNOW, BUT YOU GET SUBSTANTIAL FUNDING.
YOU CLOSE ONE PROJECT, YOU START ANOTHER ONE, GET THE BIDS.
SO WHAT IS. THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE MOTION FOR THIS POINT, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN CLOSE TO AN HOUR.
[01:20:03]
TO GIVE TO? WE CAN MAYBE COME UP WITH A LIST OF QUESTIONS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK, AND THEN.SEND THOSE ALONG. JUST WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO BRING A MOTION.
OKAY. OKAY. WHAT IS THE MOTION? THE MOTION IS FOR SOMEONE TO START WRITING QUESTIONS AND THEN, OR WE CREATE A SUBCOMMITTEE FOR TO START WRITING DOWN A LIST OF QUESTIONS.
OKAY. OR. I'M JUST. A SUBCOMMITTEE WOULD BE THREE PEOPLE.
SO, I GUESS A REASONABLE WAY FORWARD WOULD BE TO PROPOSE A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THREE PEOPLE TO DRAFT A SERIES OF QUESTIONS THAT WE CAN THEN BRING BACK TO THE GROUP NEXT TIME THAT WE MEET, TO GET YOUR FINAL APPROVAL ON THAT LIST OF QUESTIONS.
AND THEN WE COULD SUBMIT IT. DOES THAT SEEM LIKE A SENSIBLE WAY TO PROCEED? I SECOND THAT MOTION. AND YOU SECOND ALREADY.
OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED.
WE DO HAVE TO. WHO IS THAT GROUP? OH. OH, WE HAVE TO DECIDE.
SO I GUESS SINCE I PROPOSED THE MOTION, I VOLUNTEER MYSELF AS A MEMBER, AND HAPPY TO HAVE TWO ADDITIONAL OR MORE. WELL, I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER, I MEAN NOT COUNCIL MEMBER, COMMISSIONER WOODHAM.
AND. OH. AND COMMISSIONER JESTE. COMMISSIONER JESTE WAS A NATURAL.
OKAY. BECAUSE I WANTED COMMISSIONER TURNER, BECAUSE YOU WERE NEW TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR.
YEAH. HERE. I THINK WE ONLY HAVE THREE. YEAH.
YEAH. TURNER, RAMCHARAN AND JESTE. PERFECT. YEAH.
SOUNDS GOOD. SURE. NOW YOU'RE ON. YOU'RE ON. I KNOW I GOT A LOT OF HOMEWORK HERE.
THERE ARE TWO SUBCOMMITTEES. OKAY. CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, I GUESS.
NEXT WE HAVE J.3, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES PROCUREMENT.
SO WE, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS ITEM BEFORE.
THIS IS A NEW ITEM, AND WE PLACED IT ON THE AGENDA SO WE CAN BEGIN DISCUSSING TO SEE WHAT WHERE WE WANT TO HEAD WITH THIS. WHO'S BABY IS THIS? IS THERE ONE PERSON THAT WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT CIP, NOT CIP, PROFESSIONAL SERVICE PROCUREMENT? NO ONE. IT WASN'T ME. BUT BASED ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT FROM LAST MONTH, HE WAS THE ONE WHO MAY HAVE BEEN.
IS THIS FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES PROCUREMENT? OKAY. THEY'RE, THEY DON'T HAVE. I THINK THE RULE IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO BID.
AND THE THRESHOLD IS VERY DIFFERENT. THEY JUST NEED TO GET THREE QUOTES AFTER A CERTAIN AMOUNT, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO ON AN OFFICIAL BID FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
AND THEY DO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY, WHICH ARE REALLY THE CONSULTING SERVICES.
CONSULTANTS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE IN PUBLIC SECTOR.
AND, BECAUSE THEY, WE DON'T BID IN PUBLIC SECTOR.
I MEAN, THEY CAN CHARGE UP TO $350 AN HOUR OR MORE.
SO THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO, I THINK, DISCUSS.
BUT WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE NOW AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS.
WE CAN CONTINUE DISCUSSION LATER. JIM MUELLER, PLEASE.
THANK YOU AGAIN. YEAH. I WANTED TO COMMENT ON THIS BECAUSE IT'S THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL FROM CONSTRUCTION PROCUREMENT. THE CONSTRUCTION PROCUREMENT IS DONE BY BIDDING AND GENERALLY COMPETITIVE.
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL BY THE MUNICIPAL CODE, IT'S VIRTUALLY UNCOMPETITIVE.
IN FACT, THE CODE EXCLUDES FROM COMPETITION. ENGINEERS, ARCHITECTS, ACCOUNTANTS, ATTORNEYS, DOCTORS AND, QUOTE, OTHER PROFESSIONAL CLASSES.
AND IT'S EXPENSIVE BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT 8 TO 10% OF THE TOTAL BUDGET.
IT'S AROUND 10. PROFESSIONAL SERVICES ARE ABOUT TEN, 8 TO 10% OF THE TOTAL BUDGET.
[01:25:06]
SO IT'S WORTH PROBABLY WORTH YOUR DIGGING INTO.AND THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED RECENTLY.
IF YOU, A COUPLE OF COUNCIL MEETINGS AGO MR. OBAGI TURNED TO MR. BEHRENDT AND SAID, THANK YOU FOR RECOMMENDING THE ADVISORS REALTY SERVICES FOR US AND LO AND BEHOLD, ADVISORS REALTY SERVICE, WHICH IS A SAN FRANCISCO FIRM, GOT A SOLE SOURCE CONTRACT TO DO THE ANALYSIS OF COMMERCIAL POSSIBILITIES ON ARTESIA BOULEVARD. NOW THERE ARE ABOUT A DOZEN LOCAL AND, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY EVEN LOCAL TO OUR AREA, NEVER MIND LOS ANGELES COUNTY, WHO COULD EASILY HAVE DONE THAT JOB.
BUT THIS $66,000 CONTRACT WAS AWARDED ON THE BASIS OF THIS RECOMMENDATION.
THE CITY MANAGER DECIDED THAT THAT CONTRACTOR WOULD BE GOOD AND SIGNED HIM UP FOR 44,000 TO DO THE SURVEY OF WHETHER PEOPLE WANT A CANNABIS STORE OR NOT. NOW, AGAIN, THERE ARE MULTIPLE FIRMS THAT THEY COULD EASILY HAVE DONE THAT, AND PROBABLY FOR A LOT LESS. AND IN FACT, THIS FIRM IS KNOWN AS CREATING BIAS SURVEYS THAT HAVE HELPED OTHER CITIES GET CANNABIS STORES APPROVED. OKAY, SO I THINK THOSE ARE TWO OF THE MOST EGREGIOUS EXAMPLES THAT I CAN COME UP WITH. BUT YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONSENT CALENDAR YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED THAT THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM AND THESE SOLE SOURCE CONTRACTS GET EXTENDED AND THE EXTENSIONS APPEAR IN THE CONSENT CALENDAR, WHICH ARE ALL APPROVED AS A AS A BLANKET.
SO A SOLE SOURCE CONTRACT CAN GET CAN GO ON FOR YEARS AND MANY OF THEM DO.
SO IT'S A PROBLEM THAT YOU WOULD PROBABLY LOOK INTO BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF MONEY CAN BE SAVED.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO THIS IS A KIND OF A PROBLEM THAT WE KNOW WE HAVE. BUT THERE'S NO THERE'S NO BIDDING REQUIRED FOR CONSULTING SERVICES.
THE CITY SPENDS A LOT OF MONEY. I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION I WOULD HAVE IS THERE DATA ON THESE CONTRACTS? DO WE KNOW WHO'S GETTING IT? WHAT'S THE BREAKDOWN? AGAIN, IT'S 8 TO 10% OF OUR BUDGET, IF THAT'S TRUE.
HOW DOES THAT. BUT IS THERE DATA CONTRACT BY CONTRACT.
LIKE CAN WE SEE OVER THE LAST 4 OR 5 YEARS BY CONTRACT, WHAT WAS SPENT AND TO WHOM? IS THAT POSSIBLE? YEAH. WE COULD PULL THE DATA BY VENDOR.
AND IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO IDENTIFY IN TEXT LIKE WHAT THE DESCRIPTION OF THE JOB WAS AND.
SO I'LL HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE DATA. I ALSO NEED TO CHECK IT'S, I'M MINDFUL OF CITY DATA.
SOME, SOME ITEMS WERE REQUIRED TO GO THROUGH A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST TO DO.
BUT IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO GET THE DATA AND IDENTIFY WHAT IT'S FOR, I MEAN, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF YEARS, IT'S PRETTY DOABLE. WELL, I GUESS THE MOST MY GUESS IS THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO PROCEED.
COULD BE IF YOU COULD TELL US WHAT DATA ARE AVAILABLE.
YEAH. SO TO SAVE YOUR TIME AND THEN FROM THAT SET, THEN WE CAN CHOOSE WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE.
AND SO THAT MIGHT BE THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO PROCEED.
RIGHT. DO WE WANT TO SEE, HOW MANY YEARS DO WE WANT TO GO BACK? LET'S START WITH THAT. DO WE WANT TO JUST START WITH ONE? YOU KNOW, LIKE LAST YEAR? YEAH. SO I'M GOING TO DO WE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
WE CAN ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT IT DEPARTMENT BY DEPARTMENT? JUST TO GIVE IT A START, JUST TO MAKE IT EASY TO GATHER INFORMATION.
SO THESE ARE ALL GREAT QUESTIONS. MY INCLINATION WOULD BE TO LET STEPHANIE TELL US WHAT IS LIKE.
WHAT DO THEY COLLECT? OH, THEY HAVE EVERYTHING.
HOW FAR BACK? WHICH DEPARTMENTS? WHAT? WHAT CONTENT? LIKE WHAT DO YOU MEASURE IN ADDITION TO COSTS? LIKE, DO YOU HAVE A NARRATIVE ABOUT WHAT THE PROJECT WAS INTENDED FOR? IT'S ALL IN THE CONTRACT. IF. YEAH, IT JUST DEPENDS.
[01:30:05]
IT DEPENDS ON THE DOLLAR VALUE OF THE CONTRACT.FOR ALL OF OUR ITEMS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A VENDOR WE'LL HAVE AN INVOICE BACKUP WE'LL HAVE IN, AGAIN, DEPENDING ON THE DOLLAR AMOUNT, WE'LL HAVE AN AGREEMENT OR A PO. SO, WE HAVE ALL THIS DOCUMENTATION.
I THINK OUR RECORDS RETENTION IS FIVE YEARS FOR ALL OF THESE.
BUT DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, THE TYPE AND THE DEPTH OF DATA, IT WILL JUST TAKE LONGER TO PULL TOGETHER, OBVIOUSLY. BUT IF WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, TOTAL DOLLAR VALUE BY VENDOR FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, I MEAN, AGAIN, I THINK WE'D NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
SO AND WE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. DEFINITELY THE DATA IS THERE.
BASICALLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH THIS IS WHAT WE DID WITH THE CIP.
YEAH. I MEAN, AND I GUESS MAYBE SPEND A LITTLE.
YEAH. MAYBE TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROCESS IS BEHIND WHO GETS CHOSEN FOR A PARTICULAR CONTRACT AND HOW MUCH IS SPENT, AND THEN ALSO TO LOOK AT THE PERSISTENCE.
IF ONCE YOU GET CHOSEN, DO YOU, AS JIM SAID, DO YOU GET TO, YOU KNOW, UPDATE THE CONTRACT? DOES IT END OR DOES IT CONTINUE? AND THEN IS THERE A REASON BEHIND THAT? SO I AGAIN, I WANT TO BE MINDFUL ABOUT YOUR TIME.
SO MY INCLINATION IS TO BEGIN CONSERVATIVELY.
AND IF YOU COULD TELL US WHAT IS POSSIBLE, LIKE WHAT? WHAT ARE THE DATA THAT YOU COLLECT. SO LIKE I KNOW THAT YOU SAID FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS, SO WE CAN TICK THAT BOX AND SAY WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
AND THEN IF YOU CAN GIVE US JUST A ROUGH SAMPLE OF WHAT IS THE INFORMATION YOU COLLECT, THEN WE COULD COME BACK AND AGREE ON WHAT FROM THAT LIST OF WHAT'S POSSIBLE, THEN WE COULD AGREE ON WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
AND SO THAT WOULD BE THE MOST, I THINK, STREAMLINED WAY TO PROCEED.
SO I GUESS MY NUMBER. YEAH. LET'S SAY, YOU KNOW, GET THE CONTRACT CONTRACTS OR THE VENDORS THAT WE HAVE SPENT OVER 100 K OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I'M RETICENT TO GIVE THRESHOLD MY.
AND SO THERE MIGHT BE INTERESTING LAWS THAT OFFER A DISCONTINUITY THAT IF IT'S A CONTRACT LESS THAN 50,000, IT NEVER HAS TO GO. IT CAN GET BY ON A VOICE VOTE.
AND THEN IF YOU SEE LOTS OF CONTRACTS AT 49.999, THAT'S INTERESTING.
YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW WHY THAT IS. SO NOT WANT TO PUT A THRESHOLD JUST YET AND JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S POSSIBLE AND THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND TROUBLE YOU, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. I'VE GOT A QUICK QUESTION FOR STEPHANIE, TOO, IF I CAN.
YOU'RE, THE WAY THAT YOU TRACK THESE COSTS. IS IT BY DEPARTMENT? CONSULTANT BY DEPARTMENT? SO YOU WOULD HAVE A BREAKDOWN BY THE VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS, THE EXPENSES THAT THEY HAD, SO YOU WILL BE PULLING THAT INFORMATION BASED ON THE DEPARTMENT AND THEN BASED ON THE CONSULTING ACCOUNT FOR THAT DEPARTMENT.
I GUESS MAYBE MY OTHER QUESTION FOR THE COMMISSION WOULD BE WHAT ARE YOU AIMING TO FIND? SO. AND THAT CAN HELP ME FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, THE BEST WAY TO PRESENT THE DATA AND YEAH.
WHAT ARE YOU AIMING TO FIND? AND I GUESS ALSO WHAT THE ISSUE IS? SO OUR MUNICIPAL CODE IS WRITTEN TO EXCLUDE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FROM COMPETITIVE BIDDING.
THE CITY DID THAT ON PURPOSE AT SOME POINT. SO I GUESS IS THE POINT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO UNDERSTAND THE MAGNITUDE SO THAT YOU'D UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT IT MAKES SENSE TO RECOMMEND CHANGING THE, YOU KNOW, THE CITY'S MUNICIPAL CODE AND THE CITY'S PURCHASING RULES.
THE TOTAL SIZE OF WHAT WE'RE SPENDING AND WHETHER THERE ARE CONTRACTS THAT ARE PERPETUALLY RENEWED.
THOSE TWO THINGS HAVE BEEN MENTIONED, WHICH WOULD HIGHLIGHT A POTENTIAL PROBLEM.
[01:35:05]
THIS IS A PROJECT, ONE OF THE ASSISTANCE TO THE CITY MANAGER IS LEADING WITH MY DEPARTMENT.SO WE ARE LOOKING AT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. SPECIFICALLY.
SO THIS THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS ON OUR AGENDA ON THE STAFF SIDE.
SO ONE POTENTIAL THEORY, I GUESS ONE COULD EXPLORE IS WHETHER CENSUS, NONCOMPETITIVE BIDDING, WHETHER THE COST THAT'S BEING CHARGED BEGINS TO DIVERGE OVER TIME FROM WHAT THE MARKET RATE IS.
THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A SIGNAL THAT THE PROCESS MIGHT NEED TO BE CHANGED AT SOME POINT.
AND SO WITH THE DATA, IF WE'RE LUCKY TO GET THE DATA, WE COULD THEN FIND WAYS TO MEASURE THAT, RIGHT. SO IF YOU SEE THAT THE FIRST BID IS AT MARKET RATES, AND THEN BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THE THIRD CONTRACT, YOU BEGIN TO BE 50% ABOVE MARKET. THAT BEGINS TO TELL YOU THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO THINK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.
SO THAT'S ONE, ONE IDEA. BUT TO SAY THAT BUT TO MAKE A PRECISE STATEMENT ABOUT THAT, YOU NEED TO THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT WHAT THE NATURE OF THE CONTRACT IS.
EXACTLY. IS THERE REALLY A MARKET OUT THERE OR DOES THIS PERSON HAVE SPECIALIZED SKILLS FOR WHICH THERE IS NO COMPARABLE MARKET, AND SO THEN THERE'S NO WAY TO REALLY. SO ONE NEEDS TO ADJUST.
AND SO THAT'S WHY LOOKING AT THE DATA CAREFULLY COULD GIVE YOU SOME GUIDANCE.
I JUST HAD A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE EXISTING PROCESS IS.
SO IF WE'RE NOT ACCEPTING BIDS FOR THESE THINGS I ASSUME SOMEONE MAKES A RECOMMENDATION.
HEY, THIS IS THE COMPANY THAT HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED.
AND THEN IT GOES TO A VOTE IN THE CITY AND THE COUNCIL VOTES ON IT SAYS, OKAY, YES, WE'RE GOING TO USE THIS COMPANY TO DO THIS? SO IT DEPENDS. IT DEPENDS ON THE. SO IT DEPENDS ON THE DOLLAR AMOUNT.
IT ALSO DEPENDS ON THE SERVICE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, OUR THRESHOLD FOR SUBMITTING A FORMAL REPORT FOR COUNCIL TO APPROVE IS A 35,000.
SO ANY CONTRACT THAT WE AWARD THAT'S OVER 35,000 WILL WRITE A FULL REPORT TO COUNCIL ALONG WITH OUR STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE UNDER 35,000 COUNCIL ALSO APPROVES, BUT WE'LL JUST IN THOSE CASES, WE JUST INCLUDE THE AGREEMENT AND THE SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION AND A SHORT DESCRIPTION.
IN TERMS OF THE PROCESS TO, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFY PROVIDERS OR TO BID, THE CITY ACTUALLY DOES FREQUENTLY ISSUE RFPS FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AND DO COMPETITIVE BIDDING. FOR A I SHOULD KNOW THE PURCHASING THRESHOLDS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT. YEAH, SORRY, I'M MIXING MYSELF WITH NONPROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IN, IN MY DEPARTMENT WE RECENTLY WENT TO LOOK FOR A FINANCIAL ADVISOR FOR THE CITY TO ISSUE A GENERAL OBLIGATION BOND.
WE HAVE NO REQUIREMENT TO DO THAT. THE CITY HAS FIRMS THAT WE'VE WORKED WITH IN THE PAST THAT HAVE WORKED WELL, BUT BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT, IT'S A HIGH PRIORITY PROJECT.
WE CHOSE TO ISSUE AN RFP. COMMISSIONER WOODHAM SERVED ON THAT COMMISSION, OR ON THAT REVIEW PANEL.
WE ALSO SOMETIMES JUST REQUEST QUOTES. SO WE DEPARTMENT MAY HAVE A SMALLER PROJECT, BUT THEY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO KNOW THE MARKET, RIGHT? SO THEY THEY'RE GOING TO GO ASK FOR VARIOUS PROVIDERS, GET A QUOTE. AND THAT WILL FREQUENTLY SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION.
SO IT REALLY VARIES BY VARIES BY PROJECT BY AMOUNT.
CITY REALLY DOES, YOU KNOW, IN IN SOME CASES JUST OUT OF, BECAUSE WE WANT TO DO IT, WE CONSIDER IT A BEST PRACTICE TO GET QUOTES TO POTENTIALLY ISSUE RFPS. SO IT REALLY DEPENDS.
SO TO UNDERSTAND CLEARLY FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CITY IS NOT REQUIRED TO DO RFPS. WE ARE NOT. AND CITIES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO DO, TO GO OUT ON A, TO DO A BID ANY OTHER WAY.
NOT FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. YES, YES. THAT'S ALL I'M TALKING ABOUT. THAT'S OUR.
WHAT IS REQUIRED. YES. THAT'S WHAT IS. NOTHING IS REQUIRED.
NOTHING. WELL, COUNCIL APPROVAL. COUNCIL APPROVAL OF THE AWARD IS REQUIRED.
AND WHAT WAS THE AMOUNT OF. COUNCIL APPROVES EVERY SINGLE.
[01:40:01]
SO IF IT'S JUST $5,000, THEY HAVE TO APPROVE.WELL, COUNCIL APPROVE, THEY APPROVE THE PAYMENT IN ANY CASE.
SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A PO FOR ANYTHING ABOVE $5,000.
AND COUNCIL APPROVES ALL OUR WARRANTS IN ANY CASE.
SO IN CITY OF REDONDO, IN OTHER CITIES, ANYTHING LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, BETWEEN 5000 AND 10,000 MANAGERS CAN APPROVE. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO GO TO A DIRECTOR.
AND THEN BETWEEN 10,000 AND 25,000 DIRECTOR CAN APPROVE BETWEEN 25 AND 50 CITY MANAGER APPROVES.
AND THEN AFTER 50 IT GOES TO COUNCIL. SO HERE EVERYTHING GOES TO COUNCIL.
SORRY. NO, THAT'S NOT QUITE CORRECT. COUNCIL APPROVES THE PAYMENT OF ALL OF IT, RIGHT.
BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE WARRANT GOES TO COUNCIL.
OKAY. BUT IF WE'RE SAYING. CONTRACTS. FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
YES. SO UNDER 35,000 GOES TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL AS A SPECIAL ITEM IN THE UNDER 35,000.
ABOVE 35,000 WILL HAVE A STANDALONE REPORT WHERE COUNCIL APPROVES IT.
SO ALL CONTRACTS REGARDLESS OF AMOUNT FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES COUNCIL, IT GOES TO COUNCIL.
I'M TRYING TO THINK OF LIKE A REALLY SMALL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CONTRACT.
SO, SO FOR A CONTRACT $5,000 OR MORE FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, IT GOES TO COUNCIL.
BELIEVE SO. I MAY BE MISSING A PURCHASING THRESHOLD THAT MY PURCHASING MANAGER WILL TELL ME LATER.
YEAH, THAT'S TOO MUCH. I MEAN, HOW CAN COUNCIL ON THE, COUNCIL MEMBERS, HOW CAN THEY UNDERSTAND? I MEAN, THEY HAVE TO SIGN OFF, RIGHT? THEY HAVE TO TRUST THAT CITY STAFF IS DOING THEIR JOB.
AND I MEAN, THAT'S THE ISSUE. IT'S SO THERE IS NO BIDDING.
THERE IS NO RULE TO GO ON. FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
BUT I MEAN, THERE ARE OTHER YOU KNOW, THERE IS OTHER INTERNAL OVERSIGHT.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE. YES, EXACTLY. SO BUT I WILL JUST GO BACK TO THE MUNICIPAL CODE.
THAT'S WHAT THE MUNICIPAL CODE REQUIRES. YEAH.
IS THERE ANY SCENARIO IN WHICH SOMEONE CAN JUST MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR A COMPANY? JUST SAY, HEY, I HAVE A COMPANY IN MIND WITHOUT ANY VALIDATION OR DUE DILIGENCE DONE, AND THEY CAN JUST BRING IT TO THE COUNCIL AND SAY, THIS IS THE BEST COMPANY FOR THE JOB, AND THEY VOTE ON THAT COMPANY.
THERE IS NO RULE AGAINST IT. WHO WOULD BE DOING THAT IN THIS CASE? I AM JUST ASKING. I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROCESS. I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC PROJECT OR PERSON IN MIND.
IT JUST WHAT SPARKED MY CURIOSITY IS WHEN THIS GENTLEMAN CAME UP AND SAID, SOMEONE MENTIONED, OH, THANKS FOR RECOMMENDING THE SAN FRANCISCO COMPANY TO DO THIS SURVEY.
IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE SOMEONE MADE A RECOMMENDATION OF A COMPANY.
IT DIDN'T SEEM. I CAN'T SPEAK TO SPECIFIC, SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES THAT I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN.
SO, YOU KNOW, STAFF. THEY HAVE A. STAFF IS BY, YOU KNOW, BEST PRACTICE AS STEWARDS OF PUBLIC MONEY.
I MEAN, WE DO RESEARCH TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, IS THIS A RELIABLE COMPANY.
CAN WE SEE OTHER. WHAT'S REQUIRED? I GUESS THAT'S THE QUESTION.
I MEAN, COUNCIL CAN THEN SAY, WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT? I WILL ALSO SAY, I KNOW COUNCIL LOOKS VERY CLOSELY AT THIS LIST OF UNDER $35,000 AGREEMENTS.
THOSE ARE NOT JUST GOING BY. SO YEAH, WE DO. STAFF DOES NEED TO JUSTIFY THEM IN SOME FORMAT.
GREAT. THAT WAS MY. YES. I DIDN'T MEAN TO BE ACCUSATORY BY ANY MEANS.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GATHER INFORMATION. I GUESS THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT.
I GUESS I SHOULD ALSO POINT, AND I INCLUDED THIS IN THE PACKET AS WELL.
SO THIS GOES THROUGH ALL THE PURCHASES REQUIRING A PURCHASE ORDER THE DIFFERENT THRESHOLDS, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE. DO YOU HAVE? IF YOU SWITCH TO MY SCREEN, I HAVE IT UP. OKAY.
SO IF YOU LOOK HERE, I'LL JUST ZOOM IN TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
[01:45:02]
SO PURCHASE ORDER IS REQUIRED FOR ALL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES REGARDLESS OF THE AMOUNT.COUNCIL APPROVAL OF THE CONTRACT IS REQUIRED PRIOR TO ISSUANCE.
THEY'RE DECLARED TO BE NONCOMPETITIVE. SO PO IS SO THAT THEY CAN PAY.
YEP. BUT IT DOESN'T REQUIRE TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER.
WHO YOU CHOOSE, THAT'S NOT, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PO, THAT'S JUST THE PAYMENT.
BUT FOR OTHERS WE DO WE DO REQUIRE QUOTES OF RACE, BUT ANYWAY, WE DID PROVIDE.
OTHERS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
YES. OKAY. OBVIOUSLY OUR PURCHASING PROCEDURE COVERS THINGS BESIDES PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
BUT WE DID PROVIDE THIS AS A REFERENCE. WE'VE INCLUDED THIS LAST COUPLE OF MEETINGS.
WELL, THIS IS IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE. I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE POINT THAT THAT WAS IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE.
I IMAGINE, FOR A VERY LONG TIME I CAN PROBABLY LOOK AT THE SECTION IT USUALLY TELLS YOU WHEN IT'S LAST UPDATED, BUT YOU MENTIONED THAT WAS A CONVERSATION THAT YOU GUYS ARE HAVING, AS WELL AS PERHAPS UPDATING THE.
YES, YES. INTERESTING. SO AGAIN, SEPARATE FROM THIS DISCUSSION THAT'S ON OUR AGENDA.
AND AGAIN, AS YOU KNOW, THE THE PERSON OVERSEEING THIS PURCHASING, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE QUOTES AND BIDS AND THAT'S THE WAY THAT I OPERATE. THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND WHICH IS WHY I THINK THE PROJECT WE'RE EMBARKING ON TO LOOK AT THE CITYWIDE IS IMPORTANT.
AND FOR THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT OTHER CITIES. AND WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE CITY'S PURCHASES, AT WHAT THRESHOLD THEY TAKE PLACE. YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE DATA THAT YOU, THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED WILL LOOK AT THAT WILL COMPARE OURSELVES TO, YOU KNOW, CITIES ARE SIMILAR SIZE YOU LOOK AT BEST PRACTICES, ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD THINK WE WOULD LOOK AT.
BUT AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE INTERESTED IN CHANGING. OR AT LEAST REVIEWING.
CHANGING. SO WE HAVE A, IT'S MY, IF I HEARD IT PROPERLY, WE HAVE A WE HAVE A CONSENSUS THAT STEPHANIE CAN PROVIDE US WITH A CENSUS OF WHAT'S AVAILABLE.
AND THEN ONCE SHE DOES THAT, THEN WE COULD LOOK TOGETHER AS A COMMISSION TO SEE WHAT WE'D LIKE TO GET, LIKE A DATA SET ON AND THEN LOOK AT THAT MORE LOOK AT THE DATA MORE CAREFULLY.
IS THAT SORT OF THE STEP THAT WE HAVE IN MIND? YEAH. YEAH. THE OTHER THING I CAN FORESEE MYSELF PROPOSING TO THE COMMISSION IS DEPENDING ON HOW QUICKLY WE'RE ABLE TO MOVE ON THIS OTHER PROCESS, I MAY REQUEST THAT WE PAUSE THIS WHILE WE FOCUS OUR ENERGY ON DOING THE ANALYSIS TO UPDATE IT.
AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN UPDATE THE COMMISSION ON.
THAT WOULDN'T TAKE THE PLACE OF THIS INITIAL STEP WHERE I CAN PROVIDE YOU KIND OF WHAT DATA WE HAVE, BUT BECAUSE THAT MAY BE A TIME INTENSIVE PROCESS THAT I THINK WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL FOR US.
I MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT THE TIMING OF THAT PROCESS WITH THE INFORMATION WE PROVIDE TO YOU.
I THINK IT'D BE GOOD BECAUSE YOU SAID IT WAS THE ASSISTANT. TO THE CITY MANAGER, YEAH.
SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OFFICIAL KICKOFF EARLY IN JANUARY FOR THE CITY WIDE REVIEW.
AND THEN WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH? WE AS A CITY, I MEAN, WE'RE DOING IT TOGETHER.
WE ARE REVIEWING THE CITY'S PURCHASING PROCEDURES WITH A VIEW TO MAKING TO UPDATING THEM ACCORDING TO BEST PRACTICES CITY STANDARDS, POTENTIALLY GIVING THE CITY MORE FLEXIBILITY.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. YEAH. THERE IS A NUANCE, I THINK.
COMPLEMENTARY, YEAH. IT CAN BE COMPLEMENTARY, BUT THERE'S ADDITIONAL THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
I'M JUST MINDFUL. I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO IMPOSE TOO HIGH A COST ON ON FOLKS AS WELL, SO. BUT AGAIN I THINK THE, THE STEP TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE DATA AND GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THE DATA WILL LOOK LIKE.
[01:50:08]
THAT'S NOT TIME CONSUMING. THAT WILL BE HELPFUL FOR US AS WELL IN THIS OTHER ENDEAVOR.AND I THINK WE CAN GO FROM THERE. OKAY. OKAY.
OKAY, IS THERE A MOTION TO DO ALL THAT? MY APOLOGIES FOR INTERRUPTING.
WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE A ZOOM ATTENDEE THAT WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT.
OKAY. EUGENE SOLOMON, YOU CAN SPEAK. HI. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE TIME.
MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, CITY STAFF, EUGENE SOLOMON HERE IN REDONDO BEACH.
WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR ITEM RIGHT NOW.
I'D ENCOURAGE THE COMMISSIONERS TO LOOK AT THE CITY CHARTER IN SECTION 19 FOR OUR PUBLIC WORKS, CONTRACTING FOR SOME LANGUAGE THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DETERMINING HOW AND IF YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHANGE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CONTRACTING.
FOR THE DEPARTMENT HEADS. IT IS DISCRETIONARY.
FOR MANY OF THE CONTRACTS, THERE WILL BE A PROCESS AND INTERNAL PROCESS.
AS THE FINANCE DIRECTOR MENTIONED, SUCH AS A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION GOING OUT FOR BIDS, A REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS, A REQUEST FOR QUALIFICATIONS THAT MAY BE GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICE CONTRACTS, DEPENDING UPON THE SIZE OF THE CONTRACT AND THE SCOPE OF THE CONTRACT.
I WOULD MAYBE TRY TO NARROW DOWN THE SCOPE OF WHAT YOUR FOCUS WOULD BE HERE IF IT'S GOING TO BE SOLE SOURCE CONTRACTING, THAT YOU WANT TO TRY AND ESTABLISH SOME GUARDRAILS FOR A PARTICULAR SIZE OF CONTRACT OR PARTICULAR TYPES OF SERVICES, SUCH AS WE HAVE IN THE CHARTER ITSELF. LET'S JUST BE SOME SUGGESTIONS BASED ON YOUR CONVERSATION TONIGHT.
I THANK YOU FOR THE TIME. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.
CAN YOU MAKE A MOTION ONE MORE TIME SO WE CAN SO I GUESS I WOULD PROPOSE THAT THE CITY PROVIDE US WITH A CENSUS OF THE DATA THAT IS POSSIBLE ON THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CONTRACTS, AND THEN WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AS A COMMISSION AND THEN, IF WE FEEL IT NECESSARY THEN ACTUALLY ASKED THE CITY TO PROVIDE US A SAMPLE OF THE DATA FROM THE VARIABLES THAT THEY'VE PROVIDED IN THAT CENSUS.
IS THAT A FAIR WAY TO. YEAH. GIVE ME A SECOND.
SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED.
WE ARE ON J.4 AND IT IS 8:23. DO WE WANT TO BRING BACK THIS ITEM OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE PRISON? IT'S GOING TO BE PROBABLY AT LEAST HALF AN HOUR.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BRING BACK THIS ITEM OR DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE? THIS IS J.4 CALPERS ASSET LIABILITY MANAGEMENT UPDATE.
IT IS UP TO YOU. CONTINUE TONIGHT OR WE BRING IT BACK.
THIS IS ALSO A COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY ITEM, I ADDED IT TO THE AGENDA.
I ASKED THE CHAIR IF SHE'D BE OPEN TO ADDING IT BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE WEBINAR WE HEARD WAS INTERESTING, THERE'S A POLICY UPDATE, COMMISSIONER WOODHAM YOU WERE THERE.
HOWEVER, I DID PREPARE A SHORT POWERPOINT. I CAN JUST SEND IT TO THE COMMISSION AFTER THE FACT IN THE INTERESTS OF TIME, AND SEE IF THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER, BETTER FOR ANOTHER TIME.
IF YOU COULD SEND THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD. GIVE YOU A TWO-MINUTE SUMMARY.
CALPERS IS CHANGING THEIR ASSET ALLOCATION PROCESS TO A MODE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE SOME TACTICAL CHANGES AS THEY SEE THE OPPORTUNITIES. HERETOFORE, THERE'S BEEN A STATIC STRATEGIC ALLOCATION.
UNDER THE NEW APPROACH, THEY HAVE SOME ABILITY TO MAKE TACTICAL CHANGES AS THEY GO.
SO IF THEY'RE SEEING A PARTICULAR ASSET THAT THEY THINK IS UNDERVALUED THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO RETURN, THEY NOW HAVE THE ABILITY UNDER SOME CONSTRAINTS TO BUY THAT ASSET.
SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. THAT'S THE CHANGE THAT THEY'RE MAKING.
[01:55:04]
THEY'VE HIRED A NEW CHIEF INVESTMENT OFFICER WHO HAS EXPERIENCE IN DOING THIS.IT WILL SUCCEED. I'M HARKENING BACK TO A COMMENT MADE BY TOM CRUISE IN THE LAST TOP GUN MOVIE.
IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE PILOT IN THE BOX. SO IF THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL AND GOOD AT MAKING THOSE TACTICAL DECISIONS, THIS WILL IMPROVE RETURNS. BUT THEY'RE NOT CHANGING THE ACTUARIAL ASSUMPTION, IT'S STILL 6.8%.
AND WE WILL SEE OVER TIME WHETHER THIS NEW APPROACH WORKS OR NOT.
THAT WAS A GOOD RECAP. THANK YOU. CAN WE FILE, ACCEPT AND FILE THIS, I GUESS THIS ITEM, J.4, DO YOU WANT TO ACCEPT AND FILE AND MOVE ON.
TO SEND US THE, YOU SAID YOU PUT TOGETHER A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION.
I'D LIKE TO AT LEAST DO THAT IF YOU COULD SEND IT. YEAH, I'LL SEND IT AROUND.
SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. BUT YEAH, I'LL SEND IT AROUND.
HOWEVER, IF WE HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, REVIEWING SOME OF THE INFORMATION FROM THEM, I'M HAPPY TO SEND THAT OVER. WE HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR ACTUARY, AND HE KIND OF HELPS GET STUFF TOGETHER FOR US.
SO WE'LL SEND THAT AROUND. ALL RIGHT. MOTION TO.
IS THERE A MOTION, TO ACCEPT AND FILE? SO MOVED.
SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE.
THAT'S STAFF. DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT TONIGHT OR DO YOU WANT TO WAIT? IT'S UP TO I DON'T WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE HERE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO BE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S TOO LATE. IT'S UP TO EVERYONE.
I THINK WE COULD GO THROUGH THEM EXTREMELY QUICKLY WITH THE RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU CAN READ THEM AGAIN AT HOME ALONG WITH THE SUPPORTING MATERIAL, AND WE DON'T NEED TO GO OVER IT IN DETAIL. SO I THINK I COULD GET THROUGH THIS IN ABOUT THREE MINUTES.
DO YOU THINK SO? OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. JUST JUST TO DO THE HIGHLIGHTS AND YOU CAN READ IT ON YOUR OWN.
THE REASON WE'RE BRINGING THIS TO YOU IS THAT THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES TO THE UNIFORM REGULATIONS AFFECTING ALL COMMISSIONS AND TO THE BUDGET AND FINANCE COMMISSION SPECIFICALLY THAT WENT INTO EFFECT NOVEMBER 18TH.
SO WE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO SHARE THESE WITH THE COMMISSIONS AT THE NEXT POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITY.
SO WHAT THE SLIDES DO? AGAIN, THIS IS THE OVERVIEW OF THE UPDATES.
THEY'RE TRYING TO CLARIFY THINGS, CLEAN UP A LOT OF OLD LANGUAGE AND THEN JUST MAKE AS IT SAYS, UNIFORM REGULATIONS, UNIFORM SET OF ITEMS THAT APPLY ACROSS COMMISSIONS AND IN GENERAL.
YEAH. CLEAR STREAMLINE, CLARIFY LANGUAGE. SO JACOB HAS GONE THROUGH AND IDENTIFIED.
THERE ARE SOME NEW SECTIONS HERE. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU, ESPECIALLY FOR THE GUIDANCE ON FORMATION OF SUBCOMMITTEES, NEW SECTION ON GENERAL POWERS AND DUTIES, NEW SECTION ON LIMITED AND RESTRICTED SCOPE.
THESE ARE NEW. THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT LENGTHY. SO I WOULD JUST RECOMMEND READ THEM IN DETAIL.
BECAUSE THEY'RE NEW. REPEAL LANGUAGE, THIS JUST TAKES REMOVES SOME UNNECESSARY LANGUAGE TO CONFORM WITH EXISTING PRACTICE. WE'VE ALSO HIGHLIGHTED CLARIFYING LANGUAGE THAT CHANGE KIND OF THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT.
AGAIN, I WILL LET YOU PURSUE THIS AT YOUR LEISURE.
BUT AGAIN, IT IS IMPORTANT TO READ. SO FOR EXAMPLE THERE WE GO OVER POSSIBLE REASONS FOR VACANCIES AND WAYS THAT COMMISSIONERS COULD POTENTIALLY BE REMOVED, WHICH IS I DON'T THINK IT WILL APPLY TO ANYONE IN THIS COMMISSION, BUT IT'S ALWAYS USEFUL TO KNOW.
THEY REMOVED THE INITIAL SECTION THAT JUST SAID THE COMMISSION WAS CREATED. THAT'S UNNECESSARY.
THERE'S SOME SLIGHT REWORDING TO A AND THEN JUST ADDED THE ABILITY IN B FOR THE STAFF LIAISON AT THE CITY MANAGER'S DIRECTION TO PROVIDE ITEMS FOR YOU AS WELL. AND THEN WE JUST INCLUDED A SCREENSHOT HERE OF YOUR VERY BRIEF OUTLINE OF DUTIES. SO AGAIN, FOR THE REST OF THESE, I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ THEM IN DETAIL.
[02:00:03]
THE LAST ITEM ON HERE COUNCIL IS WORKING ON A CODE OF CONDUCT WHICH WILL APPLY TO CITY COUNCIL AND TO ALL COMMISSIONS.WE EXPECT THAT TO COME BACK IN 2026. AND THEN ONCE THAT IS FINAL WE WILL HOLD OUR LONG-AWAITED TRAINING FOR OUR NEW COMMISSIONERS. AND WE ALSO EXPECT SOME REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE CITY WILL COME AND TALK THROUGH ALL OF THOSE WITH THE COMMISSION.
SO IT WILL LIKELY BE THE MAYOR, CITY MANAGER MAYBE THE CITY ATTORNEY, THE CITY CLERK, I'M NOT SURE.
BUT SO WE DO EXPECT THAT SOMEONE WILL COME BACK AND KIND OF WALK THROUGH ALL OF THOSE CHANGES WITH YOU, AND THAT IS IT. DO WE NEED TO ACCEPT AND FILE THIS, MOTION TO ACCEPT ON FILE? SO MOVED. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? NONE. CARRY. TO STATE, FOR THE RECORD, I DO APOLOGIZE.
WE DO NOT HAVE ANY ECOMMENTS. AND THERE ARE NO HANDS RAISED ON ZOOM.
THANK YOU. ITEM J.6, NOMINATIONS AND ELECTION OF CHAIRPERSON AND VICE CHAIR.
SO TRADITIONALLY IT ROTATES. WE GIVE A CHANCE FOR EVERYONE TO BE A CHAIR.
AND I GUESS IT'S MORE LIKE. WHOSE TURN IS IT TO BE, CHAIR? WHO HAS NOT BEEN A CHAIR YET? AND I THINK, IS THERE A MINIMUM AMOUNT THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ON A COMMISSION BEFORE YOU CAN BE A CHAIR? I DO NOT RECALL THIS FROM. I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
OKAY. WHILE YOU'RE DISCUSSING, I'M GOING TO PULL UP THE COMMISSION HANDBOOK.
OKAY, THERE WE GO. SO BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT'S NORMALLY, EVERYBODY GETS A CHANCE TO BE CHAIR.
THAT'S, IT'S KIND OF AN INFORMAL THING THAT WE DO.
WELL MAYBE WE COULD ASK THEN IF ANYONE. SO THAT'S, PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN DOING THAT.
AND IF NOT WE'LL HAVE TO WE'LL DRAFT SOMEBODY CHAIR.
SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT I'M ASKING BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF THE FAIR WAY TO DO IT.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE? YES. I FEEL LIKE THERE'S QUITE A BIT MORE FOR ME TO LEARN BEFORE.
MAYBE WE COULD ENTICE. OKAY. COMMISSIONER WOODHAM.
SO WHO'S SO THIS WILL BE YOUR SECOND TIME BEING A CHAIR OR.
I MEAN, OKAY, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WANTS TO BE.
OKAY. HAVE YOU BEEN CHAIR OKAY. ONCE. ONCE, YEAH.
JUST TO YOU OKAY. YEAH. AND YOU, I KNOW YOU. YOU'RE NOT READY.
ANYONE WANTS TO SECOND? SECOND? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. CONGRATULATIONS, MR. CHAIR. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD, I THINK YOU'VE JUST DONE A FANTASTIC JOB AS BEING OUR CHAIR COMMISSIONER ALLEN.
I MADE HIM CHANGE THE STUFF IN THERE. THAT'S A GOOD THING.
I WOULD SECOND THAT COMMENT. ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND LEADERSHIP.
IT'S NOT AN EASY TASK. I CAN ATTEST TO THAT. WELL, I TRY TO DIG DEEP AND LISTEN TO EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY PUBLIC, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. IT'S NOT ABOUT ME.
WELL, I THINK YOU DID A GOOD JOB. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
WHAT ABOUT THE VICE? WE HAVE TO DO A VICE CHAIR.
SO IT'S BASICALLY WHEN THE CHAIR DOESN'T SHOW UP TO THE MEETING, YOU KIND OF RUN IT.
IT'S A VERY EXCITING TIME. I HAVEN'T BEEN A VICE CHAIR YET, SO.
SO I'LL, I MEAN, I'LL VOLUNTEER TO BE VICE CHAIR.
OKAY. SECOND. PERFECT. YEAH. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
ALL OPPOSED? NONE. MOTION CARRIED. PERFECT. ITEM K, AND THEN WE ADJOURN.
SO ITEM K IS WE, WE'RE, JUST CONFIRM WHAT'S GOING TO BE ON THE AGENDA NEXT TIME.
[K. COMMISSION MEMBER ITEMS AND FUTURE COMMISSION AGENDA TOPICS]
DO WE NEED A LETTER TO BE, TO COUNCIL TO BE ON THE AGENDA? WE DON'T WRITE THE LETTER. I'M SORRY. THERE WAS A SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WAS.YEAH. SO WE DON'T NEED TO BRING THAT BACK ANYMORE.
UNLESS THAT'S ANYONE. COMMITTEE GOING TO GENERATE A LIST OF QUESTIONS.
AND THEN THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT. TWO DIFFERENT. THIS IS FOR THE LETTER TO.
OH I'M SORRY. THE BUDGET FOR THE QUARTERLY RECOMMENDATION.
YEAH. OKAY. SO WE DON'T NEED TO BRING THAT BACK ANYMORE.
SUBCOMMITTEE IS GOING TO DRAFT DO THAT LETTER.
YES, YES. AND THEN SEND IT OFF. AND THEN CIP PROJECT, WE'RE BRINGING THAT ONE BACK.
[02:05:02]
SO THAT'LL BE NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO THE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES PROCUREMENT.OR WOULD YOU, I GUESS WHAT I WAS WHEN YOU HAVE THE DATA, CENSUS DATA THAT.
WE VOTED THAT, BUT THAT STEPHANIE WAS GOING TO BRING BACK TO WHAT CAN SHE PROVIDE? YEAH. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU COULD DO BY NEXT MONTH OR BY JANUARY? THAT'S THE QUESTION. WE'RE JUST ASKING WHAT THEY CAN DO, THAT'S ALL.
WE'RE NOT TELLING THEM TO DO ANYTHING. IF IT'S JUST LIKE A SAMPLE OF THE DATA.
YEAH, I THINK I THINK THAT IS VERY DOABLE. OKAY.
THANK YOU. NUMBER THREE WOULD BE. OH, THE BUDGET. OUR LONG-AWAITED BUDGET. OKAY. THE, WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT BUDGET? I FORGET, END OF THE YEAR. YES. THE YEAR END.
END OF THE YEAR. OKAY. END OF YEAR. ANYTHING.
ANYTHING ELSE WE HAVE FOR THE AGENDA STEPHANIE? DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT I DO NOT. I DO NOT THINK SO.
OKAY, SO THAT'S ALL. YEP. OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO ANYTHING ELSE ANYBODY ELSE WANTS? THIS IS A TIME WHERE IF ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST SOMETHING, REQUEST ANYTHING, OR TALK ABOUT ANYTHING, THIS IS KIND OF YOUR TIME, I GUESS.
THANKS FOR EVERYONE'S PATIENCE WITH ALL MY QUESTIONS. THAT'S HOW YOU LEARN A LITTLE BIT.
SO DON'T HOLD BACK. THANK YOU. IF I COULD MAKE ONE STATEMENT.
WE ARE SO EXCITED TO WELCOME HIM. HE IS OUR NEW BUDGET ANALYST.
HE'S REPLACING AARON, AND HE STARTED OFFICIALLY THIS WEEK, SO I'LL JUST.
I'LL JUST LET HIM INTRODUCE HIMSELF. YES. JACOB.
BUDGET ANALYST. NICE TO MEET YOU ALL. AND TO OBSERVE THIS MEETING.
I WAS AT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT PREVIOUSLY, SO I HAVE A SENSE OF THE CITY.
FIRST TIME OVER IN CITY HALL. SO YOU'RE HOMEGROWN.
NICE. TERRIFIC. WELCOME. HE HAS A VERY STRONG DATA BACKGROUND.
SO WE ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE REPORT THAT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BRING TO YOU ABOUT THAT.
THERE WE GO. WELCOME, JACOB. AND ADJOURNMENT.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN THE MEETING? SO MOVED.
SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED? ADJOURNED AT 8:38 P.M..
THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.